LEOSA: New York City: Mag Restrictions

[Jason M]

I am saddened by what has happened to NYC politically to the degree that I no longer go there without good cause. Half of my extended family are either there or in NJ. We try to have family events on the NJ side of the river. There is so much to see, do, and most importantly eat in NYC (Blues will have to tell you where to get eggplant done right). I live less than two hours from the PATH stations on the NJ side. Getting there was easy. My last visit was just before Christmas. I was just a tag along with my GF who had to attend training on the lower east side. Christmas time in Manhattan is really something to see. The lights, Rock center, Macy's etc. Every American needs to see that once. The WTC and ground zero exhibits are awesome and should be seen by all. Too many have willfully forgotten forgotten that morning. Shameful!

My carry was an old skool 36 in an OWB with a 442 in a pocket holster. Since it was transiting NJ, I only carried WC ammo. Even the most enthusiastic prosecutor would have a hard time calling them hollow points. I left the knives at home as NYC has some odd knife laws. LEOSA doesn't cover knives. Always have your creds with you and carry them separately from your wallet in case you get mugged. They will get you back into the PCT house so don't lock them up with the guns. Should you decide to go, I am willing to bet that an RFI thread titled "What should I see, visit, and eat in NYC?" would generate some epic responses.

[blues]

Jason, to be honest, as much as I hate what has happened politically in many urban, (and truthfully not just urban), areas...it's the seeming eagerness of brother and sister LEO's, (not to mention the DA / US Attorney's offices), to cavalierly cast their brethren to the wolves and the bottomless pit of unnecessary litigation.

There was a time, and I remember it quite clearly, when even if you didn't like a guy from another department and had words or worse, unless something truly egregious was in play you always tried to find a way out that didn't cause the ruination of lives and careers unnecessarily.

Now...not so much. Sad.

[HCM]

Apologies for any offense, this was intended as humor.

LEOSA exemptions are good for a few, but as a law abiding civilian it does leave a bad taste in my mouth. This brings out my edge.

LEOSA is not just a personal benefit for the retirees or active state / local LEO's going outside their jurisdiction. The public paid to train these people and it is a benefit to public safety having those trained individuals be armed in public.

It is not a coincidence that after many years of effort both LEOSA and the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Good Samaritan Act were only passed in the aftermath of 9/11.

[Jason M]

Jason, to be honest, as much as I hate what has happened politically in many urban, (and truthfully not just urban), areas...it's the seeming eagerness of brother and sister LEO's, (not to mention the DA / US Attorney's offices), to cavalierly cast their brethren to the wolves and the bottomless pit of unnecessary litigation.

There was a time, and I remember it quite clearly, when even if you didn't like a guy from another department and had words or worse, unless something truly egregious was in play you always tried to find a way out that didn't cause the ruination of lives and careers unnecessarily.

Now...not so much. Sad.

I totally agree. Those "cops" though, are just an extension of the politics that evolved over the years. It begins in the schools and carries through to selection, recruitment, training, and promotion at the PD and DA's office. It is a pernicious cycle. Hell, most of the academy recruits that we see today have never been in a fist fight as a kid, never had a bloody nose or have been kicked in the yam bag. The "fighting is always wrong" indoc is hard to overcome. They have been taught to tell someone else and let them deal with it. It is no wonder that there so many who seek to hamstring their own.

[blues]

I totally agree. Those "cops" though, are just an extension of the politics that evolved over the years. It begins in the schools and carries through to selection, recruitment, training, and promotion at the PD and DA's office. It is a pernicious cycle. Hell, most of the academy recruits that we see today have never been in a fist fight as a kid, never had a bloody nose or have been kicked in the yam bag. The "fighting is always wrong" indoc is hard to overcome. They have been taught to tell someone else and let them deal with it. It is no wonder that there so many who seek to hamstring their own.

Strangely enough, I commented on the same thing when I went through my first academy class about 35 years ago. (I clearly remember being taken aback by how quickly some folks pulled their (training) guns during a tussle and hadn't a clue about defending themselves or the continuum of force.)

Maybe things haven't changed all that much in that respect. And so it goes...

[blues]

Received an email from Tony Vergnetti, Esq., the president of FEDS.

He will set up a time for us to review the LEOSA matter under discussion here during the coming week.

I'll do my best to summarize the salient points following that conversation.

[SJC3081]

10 round mag limit.

If you are going through NJ don't bring hollow points, yes I know they are actually legal under leosa but you think that you won't get locked up regardless?

Same goes for NY/NYC, don't bring higher capacity mags, an nyc DA would literally foam at the mouth in charging an officer out of state on leosa challenge grounds.

Absurd.

[blues]

Received an email from Tony Vergnetti, Esq., the president of FEDS.

He will set up a time for us to review the LEOSA matter under discussion here during the coming week.

I'll do my best to summarize the salient points following that conversation.

Got a phone call from the attorney referenced above.

He says that we are absolutely protected under LEOSA regarding the carriage of federally legal hollow point handgun ammunition. (Non-auto / non-suppressed.)

Regarding the NYC / SAFE Act regs regarding exemption from the ten round magazine limit he said that the issue appears to be nebulous and murky enough to warrant caution to avoid unnecessary litigation even if we should legally be exempted.

His recommendation is that if I can work around it by carrying 10 round magazines it would be prudent to carry them rather than fight "city hall".

So, in an abundance of caution I'll probably just load up my ten round magazines with HST and go with that instead of the 12 round Magul backed by a 15 round Glock OEM magazine.

Hope this info will prove useful to others who find themselves in the same boat.

[Det1397]

Got a phone call from the attorney referenced above.

He says that we are absolutely protected under LEOSA regarding the carriage of federally legal hollow point handgun ammunition. (Non-auto / non-suppressed.)

Regarding the NYC / SAFE Act regs regarding exemption from the ten round magazine limit he said that the issue appears to be nebulous and murky enough to warrant caution to avoid unnecessary litigation even if we should legally be exempted.

His recommendation is that if I can work around it by carrying 10 round magazines it would be prudent to carry them rather than fight "city hall".

So, in an abundance of caution I'll probably just load up my ten round magazines with HST and go with that instead of the 12 round Magul backed by a 15 round Glock OEM magazine.

Hope this info will prove useful to others who find themselves in the same boat.

Sounds like good advice and practice in Cuomo's and DeBlasio's New York and NYC.
As an aside, when sworn members within the confines of Long Island departments retire, they do so with their issued pistols. These consist of mainly high cap GLOCKs and Sigs. They leave service with the issued magazines. In a strict interpretation of the NYS Penal Law, sections 265.36 and 265.20, this practice would appear to be problematic in a "perfect storm"...as they are no longer considered police or peace officers under the NYS Criminal Procedure Law.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm

[blues]

Sounds like good advice and practice in Cuomo's and DeBlasio's New York and NYC.
As an aside, when sworn members within the confines of Long Island departments retire, they do so with their issued pistols. These consist of mainly high cap GLOCKs and Sigs. They leave service with the issued magazines. In a strict interpretation of the NYS Penal Law, sections 265.36 and 265.20, this practice would appear to be problematic in a "perfect storm"...as they are no longer considered police or peace officers under the NYS Criminal Procedure Law.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article265.htm

Gotta love it.