Return of Mallet: Mallet vs PPQ

[Doc_Glock]

In Mallet 1, I was able to get a VP9 to release its striker with a hit on the bottom of the grip.

Today I spent some time looking at the internals of a PPQ, a pistol I really, really like, with arguably the best trigger in the SFA world. I had previously been a little smug because there is no way a PPQ can release its striker when hit on the bottom of the grip. However inspection and a little thought showed me that it may have a weakness when hit on the back of the slide.

Mr Mallet came out and in this video I demonstrate a Walther PPQ M1 releasing its striker with a mallet hit to the rear of the slide and with a drop of 18" landing the rear of the slide. I also made this happen with a Walther P99 AS trigger and imagine it would work the same in a PPQ M2 or any PPQ variant.

I apologize for any incorrect terminology in demonstrating the pistol's internal parts.



To make it clear, the pistol would not discharge unless the striker channel block simultaneously malfunctioned.

The VP9 required a much harder hit than the PPQ to release FWIW.

It makes me a little sad, as it rules out, at least for me the PPQ as a carry pistol. The P99 AS I tested decocker and was able to fire in double action mode after the hit or drop.

[ralph]

Well,There's always DA/SA pistols....

[olstyn]

I also made this happen with a Walther P99 AS trigger
The P99 AS I tested decocker and was able to fire in double action mode after the hit or drop.

Seems to me that it's merely a curiosity in the P99, since that pistol should be carried decocked anyway.

[GJM]

This makes me sad.

[dwcopple]

Canik pistols use the same setup. Try one of those if u can

[olstyn]

It's hard to tell since I own neither a P99 AS or PPQ (and Photobucket recently broke the internet), but the PPQ internals look an awful lot like the P99 AS but slightly modified to omit the DA feature.

That's exactly correct; the PPQ is simply a P99 that is single action only with some cosmetic changes. I'm not debating that. I'm merely saying that releasing the striker from a cocked position by an impact to the rear of the slide on the P99 is not likely to be relevant, because it's meant to be carried decocked, and therefore the striker is already "released" in the scenario that was put forth as problematic in the previous thread regarding similar behavior with the VP9. It won't get more released than its at rest position no matter how many times or how hard someone whacks it.

[rd62]

Isn't this exactly one of the reasons striker fired pistols usually feature a striker block?

[olstyn]

Like I said, I have no experience with either pistol. Was the P99 AS intended to be carried decocked, or was it just capable of doing so? I realize it's a distinction that's largely irrelevant, I'm just curious.

That's a point that some folks have debated on the Walther forum based on different versions of the manual that have come out over time, but how many no manual safety DA/SA pistols are there that aren't intended to be carried decocked? In my OPINION, it's silly to carry the P99 in AS or SA mode. I'm not going to claim that it's necessarily unsafe, but if you intend to do that, it makes more sense to just buy a PPQ, no? Beyond that, even if the striker falls and gets caught by the safety plunger on the P99, the gun is still able to be fired simply by pulling the trigger. Moral of the story? (Again IMO, and heavily tongue in cheek.) DA/SA is a superior system to SAO, especially in striker-fired guns.

Alternate, sadder moral of the story: Glocks are better than VP9s and PPQs, and therefore must be perfect after all?

[olstyn]

Isn't this exactly one of the reasons striker fired pistols usually feature a striker block?

Yes. The major concern that was brought up in the previous thread on similar behavior in the VP9 is that an unnoticed impact while the gun was holstered could potentially leave the gun with a dead trigger, which could lead to it being unable to be fired when drawn in a time of need.

[GJM]

Like I said, I have no experience with either pistol. Was the P99 AS intended to be carried decocked, or was it just capable of doing so? I realize it's a distinction that's largely irrelevant, I'm just curious.

Wars have been fought over this on the Walther forum.

Back to the main issue, there seem two relevant questions. If the fully tensioned striker drops, will it fire. The answer seems to be no, if the firing block safety works. Second question is if the striker drops, but does not fire, will you end up with a dead trigger, and the answer seems to be yes.

I do understand that the conditions causing these strikers to drop are pretty unlikely to happen, but at the same time, many of us carry firearms to be able to respond to statistically unlikely situations.