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Thread: New Article on Training Priorities

  1. #41
    Jared, it is funny that when I told my wife what I posted, she asked if I wasn't becoming a grumpy old guy. Jeff Cooper filled me with an appreciation for rifles, hunting, adventuring, and writing. All I know, is long guns have brought me a life of joy, living big amongst things bigger than me.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #42
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Compared to years past, there seems to be a lack of appreciation of long gun skills with many "modern" shooters, and a relative lack of instructors that can teach beyond "Glock and AR."
    Most today equate long gun skills to blasting away with a carbine at 25 yards.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Jared, it is funny that when I told my wife what I posted, she asked if I wasn't becoming a grumpy old guy. Jeff Cooper filled me with an appreciation for rifles, hunting, adventuring, and writing. All I know, is long guns have brought me a life of joy, living big amongst things bigger than me.
    I wasn't knocking your post, and I hope you didn't think I was, because I pretty much agree with it. I just notice a lot that there's sort of a "new way of doing things" for lack of a better term and the market now caters more to those younger folks and their way of doing things. Along with what Trooper224 posted, the whole hosing away with a carbine at 25 yards vs setting up for one good shot the way a lot of us were taught for Hunting purposes.

    I guess if you want to send me down the grumpy old man path, get me started on the "I want to shoot an elk at 1000 yards" bit. Sadly I've never had a wapiti in my crosshairs, but if I had a dollar for every time I've heard the thousand yard elk shot line, I'd be wealthier than I am now.
    Last edited by Jared; 07-25-2017 at 06:14 AM.

  4. #44
    Site Supporter Tamara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Harris View Post
    short of natural disaster or civil disorder it is extremely unlikely that they will either need (nor want) to wear armor, a chest rig, and carry a half dozen magazines for the rifle. After all...if you empty one 30rd mag in civilian world USA you are going to be on the news.....if you empty TWO you are going to be in the encyclopedia......
    Oh, yeah. That's gettin' quoted.
    Books. Bikes. Boomsticks.

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  5. #45
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    Great article.

    For a long period in my life I was more of a long gun user than handgun user. For people in some circumstances it can be the more practical option. Also if someone chooses a carbine for home defense they should be familiar with its use. But since I started going to some training classes a few years ago they have all been focused on defensive use of the handgun.

    I bought an AR because I wanted to have some familiarity with our nation's main military arm. Also because they are interesting and fun to shoot. But the carbine has not become part of my defensive plan and I may not even keep it long term.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I am all for handgun skills and spend the bulk of my training on the handgun. However, if you hunt, you need to be able to run a hunting rifle accurately to humanely harvest game, and you ought to be able to defend yourself with that hunting rifle. If you live and recreate around large dangerous animals, you need to be able to defend yourself with a long gun. If you travel in or through non-permissive handgun states, you should know how to run a "legal" long gun.

    Compared to years past, there seems to be a lack of appreciation of long gun skills with many "modern" shooters, and a relative lack of instructors that can teach beyond "Glock and AR." That is not directed at Tom, as I know he regularly teaches long gun classes.
    If you hunt regularly or live where bears might eat you then you in fact already "operate a bulldozer" and it helps to be able to operate it well. I'm not saying people should not learn to run a rifle...I'm saying that 95% of them should readjust their perspective back to reality and away from 13 Hours at Benghazi or Blackhawk Down.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    I think the AR in the nearby closet and the ear muffs / eye pro on the nightstand are more talisman than practical solutions in the particular instance described.
    I think the earpro on the nightstand is actually a smart thing to do. If you don't have time to put it on then that's life, but if you do it might save your hearing. Mine is already quite damaged so being exposed to any more real loud noises could have major consequences for me. I keep earpro by both of my handgun safes. It takes me about 1-2 seconds to put them on and activate the switch. My hearing aids are also electronic earpro and I wear them a good percentage of the time I am carrying a gun -- but not always.

  8. #48
    I think a five day course could be designed to expose folks to a lot, after they have their foundational handgun training covered.

    Day 1 -- operating the pump shotgun

    Day 2 -- operating the semi-auto shotgun

    Day 3 -- long guns in non-permissive areas. How to defend yourself with lever guns and bolts, like the small CZ with five round mags. Understanding the .45-70 and ammo considerations around large animals.

    Day 4-5 -- bolt guns in the hunting fields and for self-defense. Cover the shooting sling and prone, sitting, kneeling. 0-400 yard trajectory and shooting. Keeping the bolt gun topped off during extended firing sessions.

    This would give the enthusiast a rudimentary exposure to a wide range of material, allowing them to go deeper if they had the interest. One issue would be the range, as you would want 400 yards.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #49
    Sir,

    Great article, since retiring, I have reshifted my priorities of training to my g-19 and carry gear. Getting good solid hits from 15 yds in with a step off line of attack. Always enjoy reading about your common sense approach and fact based outcomes with your students.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    This is the ugly elephant in the room. I would argue that CHL and intro to handgun classes are some of the most important classes that are taught. How well you learn to do something early, will have a huge impact on how well you can do it in the future. If you learn, shitty, sub-standard technique early, you will struggle for the rest of your life.

    I think it takes a much better instructor to teach a basic class than it does to teach an intermediate/advanced class. I've always tried to take basic classes with a variety of instructors because they reveal how good of an instructor they actually are. (And it's the best place to obtain quality material - it's not stealing if you paid to be in the class)

    There seems to be a strong tendency to rationalize and reduce the importance of these classes to the point that any moron can teach them. One of the more recent Ballistic Radio episodes with Kathy Jackson explored this nicely.
    My first formal pistol class was a basic class with the Farnams. There was at least as much instruction on how to avoid shooting someone, and the consequences of doing so, as there was actual shooting technique. The overall message of "this ain't no game" was way more important than any technique we learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Harris View Post

    What may be the best all time quote on this subject (and I don't have the exact words so I'll paraphrase) was from Craig Douglas...."If you can't keep the average dude from raping you in the shower the last thing you need is another carbine class"......
    I've heard it that way and "if you're naked in a room with ten other naked dudes and can't keep at least five of them from raping you" [emoji16] Either way it's pure gold.

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