Leatham on competition vs tactical shooters

[David S.]

My local IDPA club doesn't seem to assume either way. IDPA operates on a cold range so there's a dedicated safe area for loading and unloading guns. As long as you're carrying in approved position (not AIWB), you're free to "run what you brung," just make sure you're gun's cold when you step up to the line.

ETA: I'm pretty sure that most people are still unarmed when they pull into the parking lot.

[orionz06]

Am I wrong about this? Does IDPA or other shooting sports provide a facility like this? Or a I missing the opportunity to use the existing USPSA Stage "Safe Areas" because I don't understand the rules?

When I got my RSO cert they looked at me like I was a stranger in a strange land for carrying, to the point where folks asked me what it was like. One local range does dedicate their indoor range to IDPA for a carry swap area.

[GJM]

For sure.

One thing I think could be improved (in my brief exposure to USPSA at least) is an established, recognized, consistently demarked/signed CONCEALED CARRY TRANSITION AREA in which one can change from carry rig to game rig, vice versa.

This could be located on entry to the "Match Area", so you could enter and leave through it, and take care of what you needed to take care of both directions.

I've been kind of surprised that the mindset of competition sports seems to assume that you arrive with your gun zipped up in a rug inside your range bag.

Am I wrong about this? Does IDPA or other shooting sports provide a facility like this? Or a I missing the opportunity to use the existing USPSA Stage "Safe Areas" because I don't understand the rules?

I think the formal policy is go see the match director and be supervised as you transition from carry to match. The informal policy is to remove your carry pistol, in its holster, in the car, stow it in the glove box, shoot the match with your match gun, and put the carry holster/pistol back on as a last thing before you drive away. Don't ask me how YVK lost his appendix holster in the back of my Tacoma in St. George.

[Artemas2]

Shot at a local match yesterday and had this issue. I arrived early and help set up. As per the norm the MD was busy trying to get everything done in time with little man power so I did not want to interrupt him. I walked over to an empty pit so I could render myself defenseless and met another shooter (retired marine who I have known for years) along the way. "How's it going?" "Good, I am just heading over to the berm to unload my gun" "What? You are carrying a loaded gun! You can't do that!"... Long conversation short I unloaded my gun and was not struck down by lightning.

Having worked as an SO I get why the rules are there and try to abide by them as much as possible, but sometimes it can't be help. I agree with what Rich suggested, we already have the no ammo "safety table" why not have a dedicated "Unloading area".

[Zincwarrior]

My local IDPA club doesn't seem to assume either way. IDPA operates on a cold range so there's a dedicated safe area for loading and unloading guns. As long as you're carrying in approved position (not AIWB), you're free to "run what you brung," just make sure you're gun's cold when you step up to the line.

ETA: I'm pretty sure that most people are still unarmed when they pull into the parking lot.

IDPA matches I go to always note in the range brief just grabbing an SO to degun or upgun before or after the match.

[BehindBlueI's]

The most telling line from the OP's video is Leatham's last 2 sentences, "It looks like I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gunfight with me."

That line could be repeated by any number of competition shooters. Hell, the best chance that any of us on this forum would have in a fair gunfight against Jerry Miculek would be to hope that the shot timer causes his pacemaker to malfunction. Even then he would probably have enough cerebral perfusion to put one between our eyes before we finished hearing the beep.

No, the only way that we are coming out ahead that one is if we use tactics to create a massively unfair advantage. Unfortunately, guys like Leatham et al have enough competition experience that even a rudimentary understanding of tactics allows them to negate all but the most far fetched advantages. Actually, their understanding of tactics is often far from rudimentary.

This scenario can be played as nauseum with virtually all of the combat sports in that the best competitors will destroy the vast majority of practitioners 99.9% of the time. So, I've become very comfortable with the notion that guys like Leathem and even the much maligned Instructor Zero would eat my lunch at any reasonably fair gunfight. At the same time, I hold a similar advantage over 98% of the criminal population..

Honestly, that's the disconnect. There are no fair gun fights, and there is a fairly steep curve of diminishing returns for technical skills with a handgun vs survival of a self defense shooting, along side the fact that many of the skills are simply irrelevant (super fast reloads, a split time advantage of a few tenths of a second, etc).

I look at the LEOs killed on my department, and they aren't killed by someone with superior training and/or gun handling skills. They are killed by people who got the drop on them. How much do you train to see trouble coming, to evade, to de-escalate, vs how much time do you train to shoot?

The analogy I tend to use is the OODA loop is a relay race. Your "A" is the anchor man. It doesn't matter if your anchor man is an Olympic runner if he never gets the baton.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I think the formal policy is go see the match director and be supervised as you transition from carry to match. The informal policy is to remove your carry pistol, in its holster, in the car, stow it in the glove box, shoot the match with your match gun, and put the carry holster/pistol back on as a last thing before you drive away. Don't ask me how YVK lost his appendix holster in the back of my Tacoma in St. George.

Your informal policy observation seems sim to what I use in USPSA now George & the same MO when I used to shoot IDPA.

Slight lane veer but chose to leave IDPA early last yr., too much 'tardery over my RMR, not even going into an SO several yrs. ago saying after I shot a stage, that I was breaking the 180 on every draw & reholster, this was when I carried IWB @ 430.

In my USPSA squad I'm the only non-LE which works great as they are all longtime friends, the MD leaves us alone as we're squared away, long time, safe shooters & I can shoot everything AIWB.

[45dotACP]

The analogy I tend to use is the OODA loop is a relay race. Your "A" is the anchor man. It doesn't matter if your anchor man is an Olympic runner if he never gets the baton.

I like this analogy.


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[Surf]

Sorry bit of a drift but what do we call the "tactical" guys who have ambitions of wearing tight shirts and shorts and making a full on assault to get notches on their gamer rigs on their way to fulfilling their dreams of GM Yodaism? They aren't "Timmies" or "Gamers" I don't think, so what exactly are they called?

[GJM]

Sorry bit of a drift but what do we call the "tactical" guys who have ambitions of wearing tight shirts and shorts and making a full on assault to get notches on their gamer rigs on their way to fulfilling their dreams of GM Yodaism? They aren't "Timmies" or "Gamers" I don't think, so what exactly are they called?

Called "Surf."