Make it job relative.
Make it mandatory.
Apply it from hire to retirement.
No age adjustment like Cooper. If it's relative to the job, you need to able to do it at 25 and 55, if doing the same job.
Provide fitness equipment, gym member ship and/or duty time to maintain job related fitness.
And then you can run any fat, lazy slob up the street regardless of sex.
Agree.Originally Posted by LSP552
I actually "think", that those rules were in place during my time but I don't remember anything being actively enforced except for the years I was on SRT and one particular year when they decided on having agents stress tested on treadmills for some reason.
There's nothing civil about this war.
Exactly. This could turn into a be careful what you ask for jiffy quick. Can you imagine the whining after needing to chase a young, fit criminal for a block or two, maybe over fences and such. Then having to wrestle them to the ground while defending from a weapon take away, then chase again the into a FoF setting. Wonder how many heart attacks we'd get or how much louder the whining would get.
They are push-ups for fucks sake. Why the hell cant women do push-ups. We aren't talking about having to to hundreds are we??
US Male 90th percentile weight / female 95th percentile weight is right around 250 lbs. I'd love to see a standard like "drag a 250lb sandbag 50 yards for time". 3MPH = about 90 yards a minute IIRC; it would be interesting to see what a 2 minute cutoff would do. Whether you spin it as saving a colleague or a proxy to being able to deal with a member of the public would be whatever fits best PC-wise.
ETA: F me, *average* female weight in the US is now 168 lbs at 5'4".
Further ETA: Jeez, even 75th percentile female weight is over 190. Just make it 190 lbs to keep away arguments of judging men as more important.
Last edited by luckyman; 07-14-2017 at 12:52 PM.
We be fat. How about you only get service from emergency personnel able to realistically help you based on their own weight? Hell I'd never have to help anyone but teenagers and meth heads.
Last edited by Peally; 07-14-2017 at 12:52 PM.
Semper Gumby, Always Flexible
Army has been going through this recently. The Infantry school at FT Benning (aka Maneuver Center of Excellence with Armor and Cav now) put a lot of effort into studying a PT test that would measure capabilities for an Infantry soldier of any age or gender versus the classic 3 event APFT. Example - dropping a 120 mortar round down the tube, pulling a dummy simulating wounded soldier out of a BFV turret, removing the barrel from a BFV 25mm, and so on. Not sure where this going now........
Last edited by ranger; 07-14-2017 at 01:10 PM.
There's been some debate about fitness standards at my agency recently and this is exactly what I've been saying when asked. Realistic and job relative standards without age or gender breakdowns. I like the obstacle course, agility test idea. Everyone on patrol must complete the same course within the same time limit regardless of age or gender. Apply a slightly lower standard for investigators and a slightly higher standard for special teams. Your standards depend on your position, not your age or gender. I would love that.
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Pushups are a pretty good indicator of general upper body and core strength, may not be a police specific but certainly useful as a measure of general fitness. The Mayo Clinic even publishes push up standards. I would say that the core strength component is much more important, since chronic back injury (from duty belts and/or sitting) is a constant risk we all face and causes significant loss of productivity. While there are a ton of better test, pushups don't require special equipment to administer or train, and have a relatively low risk of injury.
Workers Comp is a big issue with physical fitness standards. If you are injured while engaging in physical activity to meet job requirements, who's going to pay the bill?
What usually hems places up is that they get "standards" from cut rate organizations that won't be able defend their recommendations in court. Pay for professional services or pay for cutting corners.
In the Marines I was pulling a 300 PFT at 130lbs. I was light, fast and good on paper, but I dragged ass in the field. I'm closer to the other end of the spectrum these days, still dragging ass, but a lot stronger and able to grind out work. I get both sides of the argument and someone is always going to have a legitimate complaint with the test.
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Some of the first responder and military positions are physically demanding. I retired at 55 as an Infantry officer and was still passing the APFT (frankly beating a lot of my young solders but that is another issue). However - our society is based on a retirement age of 65 or so and every day the number of jobs with some form of pension is reducing. It will be interesting to see how we as a society handle those who started in a career path that demands a certain amount of physical ability as they age and suffer wear and tear. No, I do not have the answer - just an observation.
In a perfect world this would be my PT test:
Desk Duty/non-sworn: Carry 30lb box up three flights of stairs without taking a break (I'm being serious here, having some sort of minimum physical standard for everyone is a good idea and will help prevent complete abject laziness).
Officers in the field but unlikely to arrest someone personally (investigators, etc.): Physically restrain uncooperative but non-violent 180lb subject for three minutes (to simulate backup arriving) OR place subject in handcuffs, whichever occurs first.
Patrol/investigators who make frequent contacts (drug units, etc.): While in full kit, physically restrain violent 200lb subject while retaining weapon for three minutes (to simulate back arriving) OR place subject in handcuffs, whichever occurs first. All use of force doctrines apply (i.e. no chokeholds if your department doesn't allow them). Automatic failure for failing to retain weapon. Immediately conduct 100 yard sprint. Failure time is 45s. Immediately conduct 200lb dummy drag for 50 ft (no time limit, but no rest periods). Automatic failure for letting go of dummy.
SWAT/tactical units: While in full kit conduct basic obstacle course with live fire drills interspersed (I would leave this up to each unit to design based on their specific and likely AO as well as their own unit standards).
All tests would be pass/fail with a maximum of two attempts per day, one day per week. Now I realize how unrealistic this is, but if the physical standard of a patrol officer is to be able to arrest or restrain a combative subject, then that should be what is tested. If they need to be able to run a block or two to chase someone down in their uniform, then that should be tested. And if they need to be able to drag an injured officer or civilian out of a line of fire, then that should be tested as well.
The military has PT standards that vary by branch and many units (especially combat units) have a higher level of physical standards than the minimum required by their branch, even if they are informal standards. When someone is potentially going to be dragging you out of a burning vehicle, then it becomes very important to ensure that they can actually do that. My local big city PD markets themselves as a "paramilitary" agency and yet some of their patrol officers I see are embarrassingly out of shape.
If a PT test is difficult because it is realistic and that leads to gender disparities, so be it. At least that would be defensible in court to avoid petty lawsuits like the one referenced at the beginning of this thread. Of course, standards like the ones I've laid out are practically impossible to enforce because the employment pool in our country isn't exactly stocked with athletic specimens in this era. But if a push-up/sit-up/jog PT test is the sole physical standard for police, don't be surprised when some of them can't do more than that.
"I need your help. I can't tell you what it is, you can never ask me about it later, and we're gonna hurt some people."
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