Thanks goodness for the G conversion.
Thanks goodness for the G conversion.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
Why? If you train to decock with dismount, you are going the same downward motion with both FS and G. FS just requires the smallest bit more movement, back up. I've never heard anyone comment that it's harder to decock and return up with an FS. I don't really see any difference in the motion my thumb makes FS or G. Perhaps we just have different hand sizes or holds?Originally Posted by JSGlock34
The advantage to G that I always here touted is that A) you can't inadvertently put the weapon on safe with a slide rack, and B) you can't miss the safety on the draw stroke (or don't have to practice for it on draw stroke).
-Cory
Personally I find the M9/FS safety a bit on the difficult side to deactivate. Ernie's 1911 technique works well for me if I'm deactivating the safety while I'm acquiring my grip and drawing from the holster, but I simply find it harder to defeat the safety from the ready position, and I need to shift my grip more to get a positive purchase with my thumb. I don't think the FS safety is particularly ergonomic for dynamic manipulation, especially for those with smaller hands. I also think the 'G' is offers a better option for those who prefer to use their support hand to manipulate the lever.
So to your 'A' and 'B' for advantages to the G, I'd add C) better suited for using with the 'dismount and decock' technique, but that's my opinion. My preference strongly runs to the 'G', but as GJM says, not everyone gets a choice in this matter. Thankfully, it's been years since the chain of command could have an opinion on how my Beretta is carried in the holster.
"When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."
Hey, if it just doesn't fit you well or doesn't suit you I totally get that. For me, the G seems like something that's cool to have, but I don't find the FS to be a big disadvantage. The thumb forward/down swipe that Ernest has shown, seems to work well for me even if not getting my initial grip. Then again, I have never personally owned a 92 so I haven't pressure cooked that. Most of my experience was with USGI pistol that I had to carry safety on. When manipulating G and FS at gun stores, and a friends civilian model M9 (FS), I decocked and returned to fire with ease.
When I pick up the LTM9 I might swap an M9A3 safety in it, and see which works better for me the new G or the upswept FS. My current opinion of the G as a plus, but the FS not as a negative could definitely change over time.
-Cory
Does anyone have experience Sig P225? I really liked how it felt in my hand.
Another p239 fan here. By far, my favorite Classic Sig(and I've owned/been issued most of them). As an off duty carry, I don't get too preoccupied with capacity or wml capabilities.
The p239 carries well aiwb or 3-4:00 and shoots as well as its bigger brothers.
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I spent a couple years behind a P2340 and a couple more behind a P226. Fondled P229's a time or two. As much as I liked them, SIG's lever placement just isn't optimal for me. I could adjust my grip so my thumb wouldn't ride the lever, but couldn't do so consistently when under pressure. I have no reason to believe the P229 would have been any better for me. I also find them big and heavy compared their polymer competition. My SIGs were prone to surface rust too, which is more of an annoyance than a real issue. They're great guns. I shot them well, decocking was automatic after some early training. I enjoyed shooting them and carried the huge P226 just fine AIWB.
I decided to move on to HK LEM's based on Dagga Boy and ToddG's posts and suspect I'll stay here for a long time. It'll be interesting to see how I perform in a class or competition, but I've seen no performance loss on the range. (probably because I'm not very fast in the first place)
I find that for me, the full-size / subcompact combo works better than the mid-sized for everything system.
ETA: I don't see the need for a WML on a EDC gun (non LEO/mil). Dedicated home defense gun is a different story.
Last edited by David S.; 07-14-2017 at 08:40 PM.
David S.
I do not find the FS safety on my 92A1 a detriment or hinderance, now that I have learned how to use it. However, if I had smaller hands, more specifically a shorter thumb, I would probably find it anywhere from a major annoyance to a usability hurdle too difficult to get past. A young female NCO I knew, once upon a time, and went through an M9 course with, could neither run the decocker safety with her thumb, nor reach the trigger in DA mode. At all. Her draw stroke included thumb cocking the hammer. She practiced that move with a personally owned 92FS, and it was as smooth as could be.
I knew my hands are bigger than hers, and larger than many other people's, but it has only been in the last couple of years that I have realized just how much of a deficit/advantage that size disparity means for some tools and some tasks. I can run an M9/92 efficiently and effectively. My wife can't even reach the trigger face on one. She can reach the trigger face on a GLOCK 26, but only with the very tip of her finger. The GLOCK 42 is her Goldilocks gun: she can run the whole gun properly, where for me, i can run it, but it's puny. Not as bad as like a KT P32, but it's small.
I have my concerns with the weight of the P series pistols, it seems to not be a big deal carrying AIWB but I am a 3:00 guy right now. And the controls do require some grip modification to allow for slide lock on the last round. With that being said I suppose changing platforms is going to require some grip modification anyway.
Dagga Boy makes a very compelling case for the LEM being the best street trigger in his article. I haven't given much thought in the past to HK due to price and size. I imagine the paddle mag release is easy enough to get used to. I probably owe it to myself to go back and reread Todd's long term test log on the P30.
Darryl and I were discussing this just today.
The LEM is essentially a robust, long trigger travel version of a Glock. For non-enthusiast shooters, it may be the ideal combination of function with a good trade off between ease of shooting and non-ease of shooting (meaning avoiding unintentional shooting). The DA/SA involves more complexity, but in exchange offers a specialized separate threat management and shooting trigger. For an enthusiast, this is a reasonable trade off, and for non-enthusiasts, this may be an unreasonable burden. The striker offers essentially a full time SA trigger, at the cost of less reserve trigger safety.
If you keep these trade offs in mind, there will be less angst. I carry a LEM trigger in the summer, because I value the rest of the HK package. Guess what, my pure technical performance with the LEM is significantly worse than I can do with a good DA/SA or striker trigger. What I do not do is go to a course or competition, and bemoan my worse performance on timed drills. I have yet to find the perfect platform -- they all have their pluses and minuses.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
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