Stoeger Double Defense

[VolGrad]

Random thought for the day ....

I was just reading Jay's "Mission drives the Gear Train" thread .... well I got about 4 pages into it before I stopped reading because it had turned into a pissing match about what constitutes "cruiser ready". Great OP in that thread Jay. I appreciate the thought that went into compiling all the recs, why, and typing it all up.

Anyway, I started thinking about what all people put on their carbines ... just in case. That thought wandered into, "What are the odds one would ever need all those accessories?" As I like to play devil's advocate from time to time I started thinking, "The odds are probably just about the same as someone using a Double Defense w/ 2 rd capacity (and more on board in a butt cuff) and a white light attached wishing he had more stuff attached." Don't get me wrong. I am NOT arguing against a well equipped Carbine for HD. Personally, that would be my ideal HD gun behind a pistol. I'm just saying it's not practical for everyone's situation.

What I'm saying is it's an odds game either way. I am NOT saying this particular weapon choice is the best choice for HD. I'm not even saying it's really a practical choice at all. I'm just saying it's cool as hell and I want one so I'm trying to justify why it makes sense.

My go-to HD gun is and always will be a handgun. Any long gun would be a supplement to it.

[TAP]

Everything is an odd's game. You take a chance every time you step out of your house and get in a car. I try make the best rational decision I can at the time and move on.

[jlw]

Random thought for the day ....

I was just reading Jay's "Mission drives the Gear Train" thread .... well I got about 4 pages into it before I stopped reading because it had turned into a pissing match about what constitutes "cruiser ready". Great OP in that thread Jay. I appreciate the thought that went into compiling all the recs, why, and typing it all up.

Anyway, I started thinking about what all people put on their carbines ... just in case. That thought wandered into, "What are the odds one would ever need all those accessories?" As I like to play devil's advocate from time to time I started thinking, "The odds are probably just about the same as someone using a Double Defense w/ 2 rd capacity (and more on board in a butt cuff) and a white light attached wishing he had more stuff attached." Don't get me wrong. I am NOT arguing against a well equipped Carbine for HD. Personally, that would be my ideal HD gun behind a pistol. I'm just saying it's not practical for everyone's situation.

What I'm saying is it's an odds game either way. I am NOT saying this particular weapon choice is the best choice for HD. I'm not even saying it's really a practical choice at all. I'm just saying it's cool as hell and I want one so I'm trying to justify why it makes sense.

My go-to HD gun is and always will be a handgun. Any long gun would be a supplement to it.

Thus the reason why my "social" carbines and shotguns sport lights and no other contraptions...

[Zhurdan]

Owned a Stoeger coach gun for years while I was doing the whole SASS thing. Fun little gun, the wife enjoyed shooting it too. Handy as all get out and fast on target. Really is a natural "pointer".

Now, as far as reloads, it's definitely not as fast as a auto-loader, of course, but I got pretty damn fast with it, even when on the move for a stage in SASS. It wouldn't be my first choice, but by damn, they are fun fun fun to shoot.

[peterb]

And if you shoot it a lot just because it's fun/cool, you're better off than if you had a "better" weapon you rarely used.

[Al T.]

Stray thoughts...

I have a pair of 870s ready to go due to the ability to select loads. I live in the suburbs and want the limited penetration that Remington's Home Defense BB shot gives me for the first couple of rounds (followed by buckshot) and the ability to select a slug if the situation dictates.

I have my Dad's 12 ga 1100 that was made in 1965. It runs like a champ with minimal maintenance. Mossberg produced the Yugo of autoshucking shotguns. So, like driving a Yugo and applying that experience to judging a Honda's suitability for providing a nice ride, having the Mossberg poison your thoughts on other good shotguns is not good.

Don't overlook the 20 ga as a very viable defensive round. A deer drive club I used to belong to have several members using 20 ga shotguns with buckshot and it killed deer DRT.

Two rounds of buckshot is still a very formidable weapon. I wouldn't feel underarmed at all if that's what I had. See video for details.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw

[VolGrad]

And if you shoot it a lot just because it's fun/cool, you're better off than if you had a "better" weapon you rarely used.

QFT.

This was my argument all along as to why I don't get excited about auto-loading or pump shotguns. They are awesome ... in someone else's hands, not mine.

[Ed L]

As I like to play devil's advocate from time to time I started thinking, "The odds are probably just about the same as someone using a Double Defense w/ 2 rd capacity (and more on board in a butt cuff) and a white light attached wishing he had more stuff attached."

In this case you can buy a repeating shotgun for the same price or less than the double which needs to be reloaded after two shots.

Having to reload every two shots is a limitation--you may be facing multiple attackers, may miss and need to fire another shot, or may need to fire another shot because the first one did not stop the attacker, or any combination of these.

Reloading a double barrel requires you remove your hand from the gun and thus break your firing grip as well as take your eye off the threat, as opposed to simply pumping a pump gun during recoil and bringing the gun back on target and ready to fire.

Most side-by sides don't eject the fired case which requires you pull them out before loading a new round. There is also the potential to fumble a reload when trying to slip the round into the barrel. This is something that you must do every two shots with a double.

Also note that there is no LE agency in the US that issues double barrelled shotguns and hasn't been in some time. That should be a huge clue.

On p. 44 of his book Stressfire II, Massad Ayoob considers the double barrelled shotgun to be Obsolete for antipersonel use for a century. I may not agree with everything he writes, but I agree with him on this issue.

What I'm saying is it's an odds game either way. I am NOT saying this particular weapon choice is the best choice for HD. I'm not even saying it's really a practical choice at all. I'm just saying it's cool as hell and I want one so I'm trying to justify why it makes sense.

Cool as hell is a good reason to get something. That's why you see one pictured with some of my other longarms.

[jar]

Cool as hell is a perfectly valid reason to buy a gun. Why try to rationalize any other reason?

[VolGrad]

Went to my LGS today to see if they had on in stock. They didn't but had another Stoeger coach gun I could handle. They are ordering my Double Defense in 12ga on Monday. They needed to re-stock anyway so said they would order a few of them.