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Thread: Semantics: What *is* Point Shooting?

  1. #41
    Ginja Ninja LOKNLOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aimtrue View Post
    There are a lot of varied and excellent comments in this thread. Here are my two cents:

    Besides “instinctive” non-sight shooting, point shooting involves time and distance. I drill for both when at the range.

    With a target no farther than three feet from my starting position, I point shoot double tapping my Shield 9 using an isosceles stance. I hold both hands extended forward with my weapon at mid-chest level while backing up. After ten feet or so, I move my weapon to eye level and shoot double taps focusing on the front sight. I stop at ten yards, change magazines and resume focus shooting emptying the magazine.

    I did this drill last Monday. During the practice session I shot a total of 250 rounds of Fiocchi 124gr HP. My Shield suffered no failures.

    Here are two of the targets used last Monday:
    That's great and all, but that's two pictures of the same target, one's just rotated 90°, and they're both weirdly edited in that the partial hits (half on/half off the black area) don't show any associated hole. What's going on there?
    --Josh
    When I draw, I don't deactivate the safety; I activate the danger.

  2. #42
    LOKNLOD, you are correct. I uploaded the wrong target. Sorry for my error.

    I will check my files to find the one I meant to upload.

    Thanks for you observation.

  3. #43
    STAFF Tom_Jones's Avatar
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    Semantics: What *is* Point Shooting?

    Quote Originally Posted by LOKNLOD View Post
    That's great and all, but that's two pictures of the same target, one's just rotated 90°, and they're both weirdly edited in that the partial hits (half on/half off the black area) don't show any associated hole. What's going on there?
    Those are those self-adhesive shoot-n-c targets that have been removed from whatever they were attached to when shot, and placed on a different/clean target to take the pictures and give the impression that there were no hits outside the target area.

  4. #44
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    I knew an old WW2 veteran who spent many years instructing handgun, rifle, and shot gun on a Texas state range. He had been an expert skeet shooter before joining the state. This man could shoot skeet from the hip and also shoot doves from the hip. His personal revolver shooting style was FBI 1950. Also, he was an expert with a slingshot and could hit cans thrown into the air with one. I write all this to make a point. The man's hand to eye coordination was phenomenal. Most of us lack phenomenal coordination, and few of us have the pleasure of shooting free ammo. So this means that you and I must train differently. My friend in a sense was a stunt shooter. I too am one and will be the first to admit that had I spent more time working hard in learning pistol craft I would be a better shot today. Instead I burned up a lot of ammo playing. I love to plink. When my skills get rusty, I get out the paper targets and practice basics. And I dry fire. I'm a "good" handgun shot, and was very good when I was younger. I'll be the first to admit that my stunt shooting ability does not translate to defense shooting. Point shooting, hip shooting, long range shooting, and shooting at aerial targets with handguns does not relate the task at hand and is a waste of training time. It's fun, though.

  5. #45
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    @Jay Cunningham since it has been over a month since you started the thread and a decent amount of responses are you planning on doing something with the information or just posted it to see if there was any consistency in defining what point shooting is? I'm just curious as the topic is swaying off the original question and usually turns into heated debate. In looking through the responses I didn't see any real consensus on a definition. It is a shame because without an agreed upon definition of a term there can be no discussion on merit or lack of,ways to improve or change it etc. It is similar to defining pornography in that the person viewing knows it when they see it. Maybe that is why there is so much controversy when the topic comes up.

    The weird thing about it is that everyone who is a defensive shooter should be practicing some form of point shooting even in the strictest sense of defining it( Gun held well below the line of sight, outside cone of main vision,with no ability to line up the sights or gun within eye to point of intended impact line, i.e. retention positions). At the same time I never hear anyone recommending it for distance shooting(with a handgun) again regardless of how it is defined.

    The controversy would seem to be in defining the term and where it is used or not.

  6. #46
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    ... I'll be the first to admit that my stunt shooting ability does not translate to defense shooting. Point shooting, hip shooting, long range shooting, and shooting at aerial targets with handguns does not relate the task at hand and is a waste of training time. It's fun, though.
    Id disagree to a point. I dont think its wasted time when it does keep it fun. I also think it helps one become a more well rounded shooter. If I only shot "what I was supposed to" to only address defensive shooting at close range, and only with guns optimal for such use, I would have only shot a fraction of what I have over time. When it starts to seem like work, it isnt going to get done as much. Perhaps it works differently for some people, but thats how it works for me. Our old passion of the gun thread was good in this regard.

    Ive shot some guns because they are more optimized for defensive use, and "I should" shoot them and gain some proficiency, but they are definitely not the ones I enjoy shooting the most. So, just to equate the time and money spent shooting fun stuff to being directly translatable to taking away from time practicing shooting stuff "I should" shoot, isnt really an equal equation.
    Last edited by Malamute; 08-13-2017 at 11:05 AM.

  7. #47
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    Malamute makes a valid point. I have great passion for the gun. My mistake during a long shooting career was not studying under the masters and continuing serious practice. Certainly I have knowledge and skill but just think how much more qualified I would have been if my experince had been disciplined.

    Well, if the bad guy is 200 yards away and the police on the scene don't have rifles, and if I showed up and were permitted to engage, I damn sure could keep his head down ....Ah, and old man and his fantasy. I would only desire to keep his head down--not hit him so I would not aim at his head. I wish not to kill anybody.

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  9. #49
    STAFF Tom_Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surf View Post
    Wtf happened to this thread?
    The same thing that happens to most threads here -- the mods were asleep at the switch and allowed the discussion to get off track.

    This thread is about trying to establish a useful definition of point shooting and/or other types of unsighted fire. It is NOT the place to discuss the merits of "stunt shooting", plinking, or to post the targets from your last range session. Please stay on topic and keep the more social (or non-technical) posts confined to General Discussion.

  10. #50
    Thank you. I have been lurking around this thread, trying to form a coherent thought.
    I have lasers on one of my J-frames, and my Px4 compact.
    What I do is point the pistol at a spot on the wall, then turn on the laser to see how close I am.
    At close ranges, if I'm within a foot, I figure I can hit center of mass. Usually it's within a few inches
    That's my concept of "point shooting."
    Last edited by Bobcat; 08-13-2017 at 09:55 PM.

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