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Thread: Beretta 92D With Updates

  1. #11
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    An off-the-shelf parts substitution regarding the 92D reset might be with experimenting with the standard or extra-strength Wolff TCU, the Wilson Combat triggerbar, and the lighter Wilson chrome silicon mainsprings (perhaps the 13# or 14# ones-I'm a bit hesitant to recommend the 12# one for general carry, given that reliability seems to be a bit limited with it to softer-primered cartridges. That might provide a balanced, not excessively heavy triggerpull with a crisp (but not shorter per se, unless the triggerbar is appropriately modded {if that's indeed possible for this purpose}) reset.

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 07-04-2017 at 12:31 PM.

  2. #12
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    First of all, I'm sorry that Photobucket's recent draconian decision about holding their third-party postings up for user ransom has resulted in my earlier images being blanked out; I abhor their policy, and will be neither patronizing or recommending them in the future. Hopefully, most of you involved in this thread had an opportunity to see them before they were yanked.

    UPDATE: Yesterday I shot the 92D in an IDPA match, my first dynamic shooting activity that I've been able to do with the gun, and the first dynamic shooting period since an injury somewhat sidelined me in May. Short version: The 92D with its mods performed superbly, the shooter, not so much. My rustiness aside, here are some of the highlights I observed throughout the day:

    1. The pistol indexes superbly; I realized that in my dryfiring, and need to instinctively trust that and capitalize on it more in actual live firing; I'm wasting an inordinate amount of time on verifying sight/target acquisition.

    2. All of the Wilson Combat components worked exactly as billed, and integrated into the gun. The triggerbar provided for reliable cartridge ignition with the lighter 14# mainspring; in the future, I may experiment with the 13#, but from now at least until my State sanctioned IDPA match in August, I'm going to leave well enough alone. The extended magazine release was beneficial to effortless magazine ejections, and the chrome sliicone extractor spring performed with no drama. Since I was shooting lighter standard pressure Federal Champion Aluminum-cased cartridges, I went with the OEM Beretta 13# recoil spring; for carry, where I'm using both Speer 124 gr +P Gold Dots and Hornaday 135 gr +P Critical Duty cartridges, I'm using the Wilson Combat 14# chrome silicone recoil spring. Both springs have worked well with all loadings, but it's a near effortless thing to somewhat key the spring selection to the appropriate loadings.

    3. The Olen IWB dual-clip pancake-style IWB worked quite well, and was both effective and comfortable-for both carry and draw/re-holstering, as was the dual magazine pouch. The combination works well for both daily carry and IDPA match use. The Olen kydex provides a much faster draw than my Kramer horsehide IWB, but I don't plan to divest myself of the Kramer, as it's a very good and comfortable holster in its own right.

    4. The Tool Tech re-lamped OEM Trijicon sights work quite well; there are adequate light bars and the orange front sight lamp end surround worked very well. I've always considered that the Trijicon sights provide a very good day- and night-sight picture, and their use on this particular 92D just continues to verify my good feelings about them.


    5. Even with the beneficial mods, the 92D is still a bit of a challenge to shoot single-handedly; on one stage I thought it would be advantageous, but let's just say that my tactical perceptions were clouded by my constrained skill-set. The combination of a long DAO triggerpull and the overall balance of the 92 make single-handed firing of a 92 a bit of an acquired skill-clearly, I need more practice.

    6. No issues using Lucas Red "N" Tacky #2 as a grease/lube, primarily on the slide/receiver rails and locking block. Concurrently, no issues with the Wilson Combat chrome silicone lever-type trigger return spring; it provided more than adequate trigger return power, and both trigger pull and return were crisp and smooth.

    7. As they have for years, I had no issues whatsoever with my Check-Mate dry-film finish magazines; which included me consistently dropping them into dry, powdery dirt/dust throughout the match. There were no issues in chambering, cartridge travel, or failures to lock the slide back after the last round being fired. The followers were sufficiently tight when reaching the magazine top to effectively seal the magazine tube from dirt and dust after empty magazines being ejected onto the ground.

    Due to some quasi-friendly "iron-sharpening-iron" skill challenges above and beyond the basic stage descriptions by ostensible "friends," I found that I was able to make head shots and failure drills (2 shots to the body, one to the head) with relative ease and accuracy with the gun. To me, that was one of the highlights of the day-friends challenging each other nicely stimulated the juices (and our individual and collective skill-sets).

    The Upshot: Gun is great as set up, shooter be rusty. I've got a prescribed regimen of dryfire practice, as well as some more static (unfortunately) live-fire ahead of me prior to next month's sanctioned match, but I'm very pleased with and confident in the gun and equipment.

    Best, Jon

  3. #13
    I wanted to ask, in your opinion, what is the currently available closest equivalent to the Trausch grips you are running? Do you happen to know what the width of the pistol grip is with them installed ? I know it is thickest at the screws... but at it thinnest point?


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  4. #14
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    I'll be happy to measure it when I have a chance. The two grips that I recommend today are: 1). VZ's Ultra Thins, which is made by VZ under their label, and also for Wilson Combat (with a Wilson Combat medallion incorporated into it), and for Ernest Langdon's Langdon Tactical http://www.langdontac.com/Products.html; the Langdon Tactical variant is the one that I'd personally get, as it appears to have the best checkering design and coverage for grippability;

    2). Ergo's Beretta 92 pebble-textured hard rubber/polymer grip http://ergogrips.net/shop/ergo-beret...el-92m-9-grip/. While thicker than the VZ ultra-thins (and actually pretty close to the dimensions of the OEM Beretta grips themselves), the Ergo grips provide excellent grippability; I ran a set for several years before switching to the Trausch grips, and still have that set for back-up. Cost-wise, they're also only about a third of the price of the VZs, if that's a consideration.

    Basically, if you have medium-to-small hands, I'd probably default to the VZs, and probably the Langdon variant. If you have medium-to-large hands, I'd probably go with the Ergos (but the VZs are also available in a slightly larger sizing, too).

    Other potential contenders would be one of Hogue's, which are available in a variety of materials and tend to be very well crafted (also take a hard look at their Factory Seconds selections-in my personal experience they tend to be surplus or obsolete colors/patterns, as opposed to being cosmetically flawed).
    https://www.hogueinc.com/grips/beretta
    https://www.hogueinc.com/limited/seconds/beretta

    VCD Grips can also provide their extremely effective stippling pattern to Beretta grips as a custom effort, contact them-my assumption is that you'd need to provide the basic grip to be worked on, but I'm guessing on that. I'm running their grips on 2 of my 1911s, and Todd Green and others on the p-f have been very impressed with them http://www.vcdgrips.com/products/custom.shtml

    I'm sure that there are others, but those are the ones that I'm currently most familiar with. I'd certainty be interested in hearing what others are using and recommending. And, if you're using or restricted to using the OEM plastic Beretta grips, they really aren't bad at all, but I think the other selections do offer some quantifiable improvements over them.

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 08-23-2017 at 04:12 PM.

  5. #15
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    UPDATE: Last weekend, I used the 92D in the Washington State IDPA Championship, a Tier 3 sanctioned IDPA match, consisting of 13 stages, with a minimum round count of 198 rounds (I actually shot some 250 rounds). Quite bluntly, I didn't do all that well in the overall scoring ladder, but it had mostly to do with my penchant for moving slowly and deliberately as opposed to racing through the stages (Hey, that's my story and I'm sticking to it...). My accuracy was pretty decent, and I'me extremely satisfied with the gun and my equipment.

    The biggest take-outs for me is that the Wilson Combat upgrades really are hugely beneficial upgrades-the triggerbar provided a more even triggerpull, and allowed for a lighter (14#) hammer spring, and the extended/checkered magazine release significantly aided in magazine changes (and also de facto booting me from SSP to ESP, but I have zero qualms about that-it is, after all, an equipment enhancement...so Enhanced Service Pistol makes total sense...).

    A second huge take-out is that tritum sights are hugely beneficial in a low-light situation. Probably 1/3 of my pistols have them, but previously my real use for them has been to ease my ability to find the gun in a dark room from the nightstand. Actually USING them in a low-light scenario made a very quantifiable impression, and emabled me to perform head shots on 6 darkened targets intermixed with 3 non-threat targets, and then a swinging target. Ironically, my only point down was 1 point down on the one target in bright sunlight-the first target to be engaged prior to entering the darkened environment... A year ago p-f member Steve Trottier of Tool Tech relamped my 92D with a green tritium front, with an orange surround, and yellow tritium rears, with blacked-out surrounds. That combination excelled in both low light and full-light situations. I'm now a full believer in the benefits of tritium sighting.

    Holster and dual magazine pouch were both by Olen Holsters, and this year I ran a dual loop IWB rig mad specifically for me, with a similar, but high-walled dual loop magazine pouch (precluding scratching fromm the sharp corners of my Check-Mate hardened-steel magazine baseplates. Both performed superbly, and comfortably throughout the day.

    For the first time in a match, I utilized the CCW Comfort Sling, enabling my shoulder to bear and spread the weight of the pistol. As I've noticed in regular carry, it works as advertised, adding to my overall comfort, reducing both fatigue and need to constantly tug/re-adjust the pistol, holster and belt.

    Ammunition: I used Federal Champion brass-cased 115 gr ball; I've found it, and its aluminum-case brethren to be decently accurate and quite inexpensive. While I usually shoot the aluminum-cased, I was under the impression that the brass-cased had a little more "oomph" to it, and wanted to not run the risk of failing due to chrono, I chose it. I chronoed at a 126 power factor, which is a bit too close for comfort (the minimum floor was 125...)-particularly out of a 4.9" barrel. I have a call in to Federal to discuss this further in depth. Previously I've had the aluminum-cased stuff chrono at 127 and 130 or 131 power factor, so I may switch back to that for match use; we'll see what Federal has to say.

    Additionally, I encountered 1 failure for the slide to lock back on an empty magazine during the match; there could have been several causal factors; 1) Weak ammunition, 2) an accumulation of dirt and grunge on the magazine follower (may magazines were rotated, but all were ejected into fine, talc-like dirt/dust throughout the match-while I assiduously toothbrushed 'em clean prior to reloading them, conceivably I could have missed a critical spot; 3) aging magazine springs/worn follower notch. All 5 of the Check-Mate magazines used are at least 7 years old, ranging from 7 to 11 years of age, and all have their OEM springs and followers. While any of the above could have been the causal factor, Check-Mate is shipping me a new set of springs and followers for all of my magazines; given their age, in spite of there being only one issue, I think that replacing springs and followers is the prudent thing to do.

    Another take-out was that the combination of the gun, the Trausch grip's handling ergonomics, and the Wilson Combat upgrades and the Trijicon sights made it eminently feasible for me to shoot strong-hand only shots while on the move, accurately (albeit slowly-but that's on moi). That was done while traversing a narrow plank with repetitive targets on either side as I progressed down the plank.

    I came out of the match extremely confident with the 92D as I've chose to equip it, and with my support gear. I did not feel handicapped in the least with it's inherently long triggerpull and long reset-the triggerpull is delightfully smooth, rolling and predictable, and the Wilson triggerbar provides for triggerpull consistency and a lighter hammer spring with no operational downside.

    In our recent thread discussions, I've mentioned that for a duty/threat-management pistol, that I perceive that there's much to be said for a DAO or LEM action (and others hre, notably Dagga Boy say it with much more eloquence and experience than I). My 92D clearly fits into that ideal paradigm, and will continue to be utilized for duty, carry, home defense and IDPA.

    It was a great match, and I had the pleasure of being in a very supportive squad; most of us have shot together in multiple matches over the years, including multiple sanctioned matches.

    The match provided me great, reinforcing experience-and shows me where I clearly need to make improvements, as well as celebrating the good.

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 08-23-2017 at 07:05 PM.

  6. #16
    Jon;

    I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your knowledge and insights on the Beretta and Ruger P-series platforms. I always enjoy reading your posts.

    I remember back in the '90s when the Beretta and S&W DAOs came out. I thought it was a communist plot to neuter service pistols. I thought the DA/SA B92 was the ****; I mean, how could Martin Riggs be wrong about anything tactical?

    Now, with a few years under my belt, I understand the benefits. I wish I could find a DAO model 92 for a reasonable price. How are the Beretta 8000 D Cougars (DAO)? Are they a reasonable substitute for a 92D? How about the PX4 type C or D?
    Last edited by john c; 08-24-2017 at 01:35 AM.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john c View Post
    Jon;

    I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your knowledge and insights on the Beretta and Ruger P-series platforms. I always enjoy reading your posts.

    I remember back in the '90s when the Beretta and S&W DAOs came out. I thought it was a communist plot to neuter service pistols. I thought the DA/SA B92 was the ****; I mean, how could Martin Riggs be wrong about anything tactical?

    Now, with a few years under my belt, I understand the benefits. I wish I could find a DAO model 92 for a reasonable price. How are the Beretta 8000 D Cougars (DAO)? Are they a reasonable substitute for a 92D? How about the PX4 type C or D?
    I thought it was a great period in service pistol options for all the DA reasons. I recall always being struck by what a great pull the S&W DAO's had. I'm sorry I cannot even recall trying a 92 DAO. It's a longer pull I imagine. Now I have had one occasion to actually shoot a DAO compact Smith, the single stack. I didn't dig the overall handling but it was just a mag or two.
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  8. #18
    Jon, thanks for this thread. I have shot just one IDPA and one Steel Challenge w/ my 92G and am now switching to my EliteII to be able to use a fiber optic front sight. Re; mag releases. The Wilson oversized
    http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-C...oductinfo/678/
    would be illegal as I understand, and you mention, in SSP. However Beretta USA has one similar
    http://www.berettausa.com/en-us/bere...button/c86992/
    which, while not stated in this listing, looks identical to the one in my M9A3. So this would also be legal I think.
    JohnC-if you find any standard 92fs and remove the sear and sear spring you have a 92D. It would still have the safeties on the slide but who will know that you never use them.

  9. #19
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
    Jon, thanks for this thread. I have shot just one IDPA and one Steel Challenge w/ my 92G and am now switching to my EliteII to be able to use a fiber optic front sight. Re; mag releases. The Wilson oversized
    http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Wilson-C...oductinfo/678/
    would be illegal as I understand, and you mention, in SSP. However Beretta USA has one similar
    http://www.berettausa.com/en-us/bere...button/c86992/
    which, while not stated in this listing, looks identical to the one in my M9A3. So this would also be legal I think.
    JohnC-if you find any standard 92fs and remove the sear and sear spring you have a 92D. It would still have the safeties on the slide but who will know that you never use them.
    Craig, you're absolutely correct about the magazine releases; of note is that Wilson/Beretta in their Brigadier collaboration used the Beretta extended release (which had been used on the Elite and others as OEM) as opposed to the Wilson precisely to keep the gun within SSP parameters.

    The Wilson extended/checkered release that I chose IS IDPA legal-but in ESP, not SSP. It measures out EXACTLY .20 protrusion from the frame measuring point, making it acceptable within IDPA's overarching equipment rules. Frankly, for me it really doesn't matter whether I'm competing in SSP or ESP-the gun is kitted out the way I like and seems to work swimmingly for me; it's IDPA legal, so the specific division I'm in is determined by the equipment/enhancements-but the main person I'm competing against is myself (But I'd be a liar if I didn't admit that after each and every match I compare my performance to others).

    Best, Jon

  10. #20
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john c View Post
    Jon;

    I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your knowledge and insights on the Beretta and Ruger P-series platforms. I always enjoy reading your posts.

    I remember back in the '90s when the Beretta and S&W DAOs came out. I thought it was a communist plot to neuter service pistols. I thought the DA/SA B92 was the ****; I mean, how could Martin Riggs be wrong about anything tactical?

    Now, with a few years under my belt, I understand the benefits. I wish I could find a DAO model 92 for a reasonable price. How are the Beretta 8000 D Cougars (DAO)? Are they a reasonable substitute for a 92D? How about the PX4 type C or D?
    John, thanks for the comments. I would absolutely stay away from any Cougar in .40 or .357 SIG; there are noted issues with Cougars in those chamberings. I'd be warily open-minded towards a 9mm Cougar, but I think you'd be both better served and have more peace of mind with either a 92D (they are out there, and still very reasonably priced from what I've seen on the auction sites), or a PX4. The PX4 Compact Carry modded by Earnst Langdon, and offered by BUSA as a regular order-able gun http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-compact-carry/ or the full-size PX4 would be my recommendations. I'm under the impression that it's somewhat difficult to find a PX4 in C or D actions, but I might well be wrong-it's worth a shot if that's what you're gravitating towards; your gunshop can certainly find out from their distributors, or BUSA themselves regarding availability/orderability/wait times.

    Best, Jon

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