Beretta 92D With Updates

[CraigS]

I have never shot a D only 92. I have a basic understanding how it works compared to fs or G but that's it. In fs or G the DA shot is fired w/ the trigger further forward than during an SA shot. Both LTT and Wilson bars bring the DA shot fire position rearward. The comment about having large hands and not wanting the DA shot position to move to the rear tells me it would not be an advantage.
Edit to add.
Olong, I have a Wilson bar sitting on my bench right now. It came out of a gun when I installed an NP3 TJIB a while ago. I was going to double check our 92s to see which to move it to. But, if you want to try one, PM me with your address and I will mail it to you. I want it back, but you trying it for a week or 2 would be fine.

[OlongJohnson]

Thanks, that's a generous offer. I will try to remember it after I get the D and get around to cleaning it up. Probably after TacCon.

The reason for me bringing up the trigger bar again is to eliminate the hitch that develops as the trigger bar wears, as Jon described early in this thread. My 96D has that hitch, and it is annoying after getting experience with DA guns that lack it. There are other technical solutions that I may explore as well.

[JonInWA]

Wilson/LTT triggerbar. Ask not, do. The 92D Yoda has spoken.....(or Yoda channeling through JonInWA...)
Best, Jon

[Joe in PNG]

I may just do the Wilson bar this summer.

[Jiman]

I’ve done a fair amount of trigger work on my BrigTac and although it’s not a D, in DA I’ve found the best results with the recently released Beretta xtreme S trigger group and LTT TB together.

I’ve had the stock, WC, and LTT in with the OEM trigger group, and they all more/less had the same breakpoint near the frame. The xtremeS trigger group sets the trigger in DA further away from the frame to start, breaks further from the frame, with very little over travel...all of which I much prefer. I also like the flatter faced trigger that becomes more vertical as the trigger is pulled.

The rest of my likes with the LTT TB have more to do with the shorter reset to SA vs. the other TB, which obviously doesn’t apply here.

[Winegamd]

I’ve done a fair amount of trigger work on my BrigTac and although it’s not a D, in DA I’ve found the best results with the recently released Beretta xtreme S trigger group and LTT TB together.

I’ve had the stock, WC, and LTT in with the OEM trigger group, and they all more/less had the same breakpoint near the frame. The xtremeS trigger group sets the trigger in DA further away from the frame to start, breaks further from the frame, with very little over travel...all of which I much prefer. I also like the flatter faced trigger that becomes more vertical as the trigger is pulled.

The rest of my likes with the LTT TB have more to do with the shorter reset to SA vs. the other TB, which obviously doesn’t apply here.

Other than the trigger geometry and coated parts, is there anything to this kit than just a lighter spring? It looks like just a factory Elite II hammer and the seer doesn't look any different.

[Jiman]

From what I can tell you’re right. The sear, and hammer appear the same. TBH, I didn’t take a detailed look at the TB. I had the WC TB in, swapped it out for the new one, pulled the trigger a few times and decided I liked the WC better. It wasn’t until I put in the LTT TB that everything seemed to come together to my liking.

I’m assuming, and I could be totally wrong, that the trigger return spring, and sear spring may be a touch lighter. I had a 12lb hammer spring in at the time of install and tried the new one, but I switched back to the 12lb after swapping them back/forth a few times to ensure reliability.

IMHO, the DLC coating doesn’t help the wear areas that much as far as smoothness goes. When I first installed the new parts, everything felt pretty gritty. I ended up polishing a bunch of parts, effectively sanding off the DLC coating. Afterwards it felt buttery. Who knows maybe if I shot a few hundred rounds to break everything in, the same thing could have happened but I kinda doubt it.

I polished the sear hooks, sides of the sear that contact the frame, sear pin, hammer pin, hammer hooks and sides, TB pin, hammer strut, and end of the hammer spring. I started with 600grit to knock off the coating and went to 1000-3000grit depending on the part. I don’t think I sanded through any of the hardened steel, but time will tell. I’ll make sure to check for any galling, etc... so far after @1000-1200rds, I haven’t seen any issues starting.

[JonInWA]

VZ and I discussed the appropriate grips for the 92D, and decided that the Palm Swell Recon Gen 2 grips would be better for me than the less aggressive Palm Swell Tactical Slant; while I've previously been pleased with the ultra slim Trausch grips, and even more so with their successors, the LTT/VZ G10 Ultra Slim grips, my recent experiences with the VZ G10 Palm Swell Operator II grips (with a Super Scoop on the left grip plate to expedite thumb access to the magazine release) on a 5" Government profile 1911 have helped me to realize that there are multiple components for a "best grip" fit for me on a given platform.

Slimness is important, particularly on a large-receivered gun like the double-stack magazine Beretta 92, but also is hand contact area and grip texturing. On relatively heavy, long-slided guns like a Beretta 92 or a Government 5" 1911, I've come to really appreciate several aspects: 1) Relative slimness, with ergonomics that assist my index with the gun, 2) Grippability-particularly on a full-size platform, for single-handed shooting, and aggressively texture really aids my control of the gun in terms of general handling and handling recoil.

The VZ Palm Swell grips I've found do two things for me: 1) Increase my hand contact area, 2) Lock the gun in place, increasing control and enabling me to aggressively control recoil and muzzle flip; and 3) Provide vestigial, but effective thumb shelves facilitating thumb placement and control, particularly desirable when shooting single-handedly.

Perennially, my greatest challenge with the Beretta 92D is performing accurate, repeatable and effective shots when single-handed shooting. The combination of the DAO trigger, requiring a repeated long trigger stroke, followed by a long reset, combined with a somewhat thick receiver profile and a relatively long 5" slide assembly make for difficult to put together JonInWA single handed shooting.

Going with the aggressively golf-ball dimple texturing of the Recon Gen 2 Palm Swell G10 grips has been a very productive change for me. These Gen 2 grips have uniform texturing on the entire grip, from top to bottom, instead of a smooth border. This singularly increases the ability of all portions of my grip to get locked in-especially beneficial at the tang, where the inner web of my palm can lock down. The palm swells increase the contact areas; the increased contact provides more locked-in support for control.





The grips, even with the incorporation of the palm swells, remain relatively thin, so handling isn't compromised:



After using the 92D with these grips in two successive IDPA matches, I'm exceptionally pleased with them. I have not found the aggressive texture/stippling to be uncomfortable in EDC carry, both with OWB and IWB holsters. (And if they're found to be too aggressive, the edges of the stipple divots can be gently sanded down).

I chose to remain with the Dirty Olive color, both to commemorate my Army service, and also to facilitate a same-color appearance if I chose to experiment with the Dirty Olive colored LTT/VZ Ultra Slims and the Recon, using one grip texture on one side of the gun and the other on the other, a la HK P30 VP side panel permutations, but to date I just plan on keeping the Recons on both sides.

Installation was without drama; VZ provides a set of rubber O-rings for each mounting screw, which both facilitates grip mounting and preventing the attaching screws from backing out from recoil vibrations. The G10 material is weather impervious, but be aware that the intrinsic hardness of the G10 material means that there may be rub marks/finish scuffing at the points where the grips contact the metal receiver's finish.

In use, you definitely feel the stippling, but I didn't find it to be unduly harsh, abrasive or skin-cutting. While the stippled edges are aggressive (5/5 on VZ's grippiness guide, where the Tactical Slants are comparatively only at a 3/5), I had no problems in mounting the gun and adjusting my hand positions both in draw or in use during shooting when necessary. My clothes haven't been chewed up to date, although I probably won't be tempting fate by trying with a cashmere sweater or a similar fabric.

Here's a link tot the grips on the VZ website:

https://vzgrips.com/shop-all/semi-au...e/palm-swells/

https://vzgrips.com/products/vz-palm...eretta-92.html

https://vzgrips.com/products/vz-palm...eretta-92.html

I thoroughly enjoyed running the 92D in the 2 IDPA matches, and in the preparatory dry firing regimen preceding the matches. Checking back, it's been several years since I seriously ran the 92D, and it was good to be re-engaged with it. While not necessarily the best choice for ideal shootability when speed and minimal split times are ideal (ie.e, in competition), I'm a huge proponent of the 92D/HK LEM for duty/threat management guns, as our Darryl Boelke elaborated in his excellent thread discussion several years ago. In particular, the smooth, but long trigger stroke and lack of need to manually decock prior to reholstering I find to be of huge benefit in adrenalin-loaded threat/threat management encounters.

Additionally, in both matches I used High Desert Cartridge Company's remanufactured 124 grain 9mm ball, and after exhausting my supply halfway through the second IDPA match I transitioned to Rainier Arms' similar 124 gr remanufactured ball cartridges. Both were excellent, but I've been extremely impressed in particular with High Desert's offerings, both with these and with my previously tested 230 gr .45 ACP ball. The High Desert cartridges in particular seem to be equal in quality to similar factory cartridges, but at a much lower price point, accuracy and reliability have both been excellent. I've had one bad primer in one of Rainier Arms' remanufactured 9mm out of several thousand rounds, so theirs is a c=good choice, but I'm preferring the High Desert fodder for both its quality and availability.

https://highdesertcartridge.com/

https://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-...mj-ammunition/

Especially for match/competition/training/familiarization use, these quality remanufactured cartridges are an excellent and viable value.


Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

In the recent February IDPA matches, I used two sets of magazines; Check-Mate's venerable dry-film magazines with tempered steel baseplates, which I've used as the primary magazines for my Beretta 92D since 2007. They included magazines produced in 12/2005, 1/2008, 7/20010, and 6/2015. These magazines have been properly treated on arrival (disassembled, with tube interiors, inner baseplates, followers and springs treated with Dri-Slide, a molybdenum disulfide dry film lubricant carried in a liquid carrier solution, which evaporates and leaves a film of lubricative and anti-corrosive on the components; tube exteriors and outer baseplates are treated with a light gun oil, currently Lucas Extreme Duty gun oil and wiped down before being placed in use).

These magazines have not been babied in use, but have been continuously maintained after each use. The have performed impeccably in my 17 years of continuous use, with only two issues as detailed earlier in the thread; a failure of the slide to lock back in one instance, arguably with an insufficiently firm grasp during a support-hand only stage of fire (and with fairly lightly loaded Federal Champion 115 gr cartridges-discussions with the tech at Federal/ATK strongly recommend subsequently using more powerful American Eagle, as the Champion load only chronoed at a 126 power factor...) and one magazine that didn't initially drop free-Check-Mate immediately resent it through their sizing die, and its performed faultlessly since).

I also have two 6/2015 production pieces that whose tubes were experimentally teflon coated by Check-Mate, which I use as my normal carry magazines.

Since Washington joined the growing list of states that ban new sales of high-capacity magazines, I decided several years ago that it would be prudent to get some Beretta 10-round 92 magazines (while Check-Mate has 10 round dry-film magazines catalogued, they're currently out of production), and obtained NIB three, two being US production pieces and one Italian; the only differences between the two types other than the rollmarkings is a slightly different baseplate retention stub in the inner baseplate component of the Italian production magazines; operation and disassembly is otherwise exactly the same. These are some of the better engineered and manufactured 10 round magazines that I've experienced, and they also have performed faultlessly (albeit in the rather limited use that I've subjected them two, as two were used for the first time in the recent matches, and the other had only been used as a "Barney" magazine in previous matches/training). They are easy to fully load and use, so if you need 10 round 92 magazines, these are the ones I'd recommend. Interestingly, only the Italian produced 10 rounder had the lower right side cut-out in the tube to allow for earlier 92S magazine releases.

Both sets of magazines performed without any drama whatsoever in the recent matches.



From left to right: Check-Mate teflon coated, Check-Mate dry-film finished, Italian-production Beretta 10 round (with additional 92S heel cut-out), US-production Beretta 10 round

Best, Jon

[GyroF-16]

In the recent February IDPA matches, I used two sets of magazines; Check-Mate's venerable dry-film magazines with tempered steel baseplates, which I've used as the primary magazines for my Beretta 92D since 2007. They included magazines produced in 12/2005, 1/2008, 7/20010, and 6/2015. These magazines have been properly treated on arrival (disassembled, with tube interiors, inner baseplates, followers and springs treated with Dri-Slide, a molybdenum disulfide dry film lubricant carried in a liquid carrier solution, which evaporates and leaves a film of lubricative and anti-corrosive on the components; tube exteriors and outer baseplates are treated with a light gun oil, currently Lucas Extreme Duty gun oil and wiped down before being placed in use).

These magazines have not been babied in use, but have been continuously maintained after each use. The have performed impeccably in my 17 years of continuous use, with only two issues as detailed earlier in the thread; a failure of the slide to lock back in one instance, arguably with an insufficiently firm grasp during a support-hand only stage of fire (and with fairly lightly loaded Federal Champion 115 gr cartridges-discussions with the tech at Federal/ATK strongly recommend subsequently using more powerful American Eagle, as the Champion load only chronoed at a 126 power factor...) and one magazine that didn't initially drop free-Check-Mate immediately resent it through their sizing die, and its performed faultlessly since).

I also have two 6/2015 production pieces that whose tubes were experimentally teflon coated by Check-Mate, which I use as my normal carry magazines.

Since Washington joined the growing list of states that ban new sales of high-capacity magazines, I decided several years ago that it would be prudent to get some Beretta 10-round 92 magazines (while Check-Mate has 10 round dry-film magazines catalogued, they're currently out of production), and obtained NIB three, two being US production pieces and one Italian; the only differences between the two types other than the rollmarkings is a slightly different baseplate retention stub in the inner baseplate component of the Italian production magazines; operation and disassembly is otherwise exactly the same. These are some of the better engineered and manufactured 10 round magazines that I've experienced, and they also have performed faultlessly (albeit in the rather limited use that I've subjected them two, as two were used for the first time in the recent matches, and the other had only been used as a "Barney" magazine in previous matches/training). They are easy to fully load and use, so if you need 10 round 92 magazines, these are the ones I'd recommend. Interestingly, only the Italian produced 10 rounder had the lower right side cut-out in the tube to allow for earlier 92S magazine releases.

Both sets of magazines performed without any drama whatsoever in the recent matches.



From left to right: Check-Mate teflon coated, Check-Mate dry-film finished, Italian-production Beretta 10 round (with additional 92S heel cut-out), US-production Beretta 10 round

Best, Jon

Cool.
Where did you find the US-made 10 rounders with no heel cutout?
All the 10 and 15 rd magazines I’ve seen offered on the Beretta USA site seem to have the heel cutout, or only show images of the opposite side, so it’s impossible to tell whether they have it. I don’t like the cutout, as it allows a lot of sand to get into the interior of the magazine when dropped during matches here (and I have many mags with the cutout).