Beretta 92D With Updates

[JonInWA]

May update-Yesterday, I competed with the 92D in a 7 stage, 140 round IDPA match. I was also using the match as my first foray with some experimentally finished teflon coated magazine tubes from Check-Mate.

Well, sportsfans, there were highs and lows during the match. As I've known, shooting the 92D support hand only, with its long double-action triggerpull and fairly long slide, is, shall we say, a work in progress for me. There were 2 support-hand only stages in the match, and one of the stages required 3 shots per target-basically, and not too charitably, I performed exceptionally poorly in both. Well, I know what I need to practice...but for duty today, I defaulted to my HK P30L LEM, which is much easier to shoot single-handedly...

The rest of the match went pretty well, including 2 stages that I shot perfectly. The 92D performed magnificently as usual, with no hiccups whatsoever. While in past years I primarily shot 115 gr 9mm, this year I'm using 124 gr, American Eagle, Sellier & Bellot or Independent. I've heard that European guns tend to be more oriented towards 124 gr, and they also provide me with a bit more leeway regarding making the IDPA power floor.

The teflon coated Check-Mate tubes performed impeccably. The teflon is very slick, but I had no problems with magazine acquisition from the pouch or retention (an Olen kydex, designed to carry the magazines upside-down, so I yank down on the magazine to extract it from the pouch-particularly useful when kneeling or proned; also good for summer carry with Hawaiian shirts. I've experimented with this method of spare/reload magazine stowage, and it works pretty well. To facilitate magazine retention during carry, Olen molded a set of baseplate lips into the extended sweatshield, which the baseplate clicks into; I've also used Tactical Tailor's Magna pouches with rare earth magnets embedded into the pouch fabric for retention.

Best, Jon

[Doc_Glock]

I find the P30 to be a pretty forgiving one handed gun.

[JonInWA]

I find the P30 to be a pretty forgiving one handed gun.

You're not helping....(but both the HK P30 and VP are probably among the easiest to fire single-handedly, due to their exceptional ergos and weight).

Seriously, this morning's dryfire practice consisted of 50% support-hand, then two-handed drills with the 92D. For each drill, I first performed with the support hand, and then two-handed.

I am absolutely determined to achieve at least acceptable performance with the 92D in support hand shooting. The combination of the long triggerpull and muzzle-heavy balance I've known for years render support hand (and, to a lesser extent, strong-hand only) firing difficult; for the first time I've decided to systemically develop the skill-set necessary to establish competence, rather than just avoid it and assume that it's a rarely needed skill.

Saturday's match did a great, if humbling, job of pointedly demonstrating a critical skill-set deficit-a sometimes forgotten benefit of getting out there and competitively shooting under stress.

Best, Jon

[Doc_Glock]

You're not helping....(but both the HK P30 and VP are probably among the easiest to fire single-handedly, due to their exceptional ergos and weight).

Seriously, this morning's dryfire practice consisted of 50% support-hand, then two-handed drills with the 92D. For each drill, I first performed with the support hand, and then two-handed.

I am absolutely determined to achieve at least acceptable performance with the 92D in support hand shooting. The combination of the long triggerpull and muzzle-heavy balance I've known for years render support hand (and, to a lesser extent, strong-hand only) firing difficult; for the first time I've decided to systemically develop the skill-set necessary to establish competence, rather than just avoid it and assume that it's a rarely needed skill.

Saturday's match did a great, if humbling, job of pointedly demonstrating a critical skill-set deficit-a sometimes forgotten benefit of getting out there and competitively shooting under stress.

Best, Jon

One other factor to consider is trigger over travel. I find the Beretta 92 to have a little over travel that leads to a 7-8lb slap after the break and some lateral motion one handed when dry firing at least. I see this to a much lesser extent with the P30/VP9 because the HK's have zero perceptible over travel. A trigger shoe of some sort may be helpful for the Beretta?

[JonInWA]

One other factor to consider is trigger over travel. I find the Beretta 92 to have a little over travel that leads to a 7-8lb slap after the break and some lateral motion one handed when dry firing at least. I see this to a much lesser extent with the P30/VP9 because the HK's have zero perceptible over travel. A trigger shoe of some sort may be helpful for the Beretta?

Trigger shoes are the devil's spawn...ask me how I really feel. I think that they're one more thing to loosen/fail at an inconvenient time, and another projection to complicate (if not outright endanger) re-holstering...

I'll have to check on the lateral motion aspect. I can see how the over-travel could affect follow-up shots, but the initial should be unaffected. I'll have to monitor that in in dry- and live-fire practice. The bottom line is that for me it seems to be a combination of the long, rolling triggerpull and the muzzle-heaviness are the most difficult factors. especially if trigger finger position shifting is involved during the triggerpull arc. That's easily adjusted for in two-handed firing, because of an inherently more stable base and a more stable support assisting the subtle adjustment mechanics. In single-handed, and support-hand firing in particular, those helps are non-existent, and any instability or shifting is really accentuated, affecting POA/POI.

My gut feel is that practice and perhaps building up support-hand strength are going to be the key factors in surmounting this hurdle. Any suggestions/drills are welcomed.

Best, Jon

[GyroF-16]

...first foray with some experimentally finished teflon coated magazine tubes from Check-Mate.

Please let us know if these will hit the market. Might be a reasonably-priced alternative to Beretta’s PVD sand-resistant mags.

[OlongJohnson]

... the muzzle-heaviness are the most difficult factors.

You're not talking me out of a Centurion here.

[JonInWA]

You're not talking me out of a Centurion here.

No, I'm not. And I suspect that a D-model Centurion or a Compact would intrinsically be easier to shoot single-handedly, as the balance portion of the component would be significantly addressed.

Nevertheless, my 92D is a great gun, and I'm committed to dedicate the time and technique necessary to achieve mastery (well, at least competence) regarding my single-handed shooting with it.

This week's dry-fire practice has seen me going through each drill weak-handed first, then two-handed, and the strong-handed. On another p-f thread, I came across the suggestion of aggressively positioning/gripping with the thumb and modifying elbow positioning for a more stable platform, and that seems to be working.

Best, Jon

[LadyLuck]

I have 3 92D's - 2 full size, 1 Centurion. All three have Wilson Combat trigger bars with the "overtravel" nub. I, and other 92 series owners with these WC bars, are seeing damage to the softer alloy frames. The overtravel nub pounding on the frame slot is wearing in a depression on the frame. This is evident after only about 500 rounds. We are not sure of the effects of the damage other than as the damage deepens the overtravel function may be lost. This was brought to light by a member of another forum.

It's too early to tell if it's a serious issue or not with these WC bars found in the WC action tune kits and TJIAB's. Do any of your 92D frames have this damage for those of you who have replaced your OEM bar with the WC one that has the overtravel nub?

Here's a picture of my damaged full size 92D frame which had the WC bar for about 5-700 rounds. The OEM bar is now reinstalled. I have not checked my other 2 92D's.

[JonInWA]

LL, have you discussed this with Ernest Langdon or WC? I'm interested to hear their take on this, and if it constitutes a problem, and, if so, what corrective action needs to be taken.

I'll have to look at mine later today or tomorrow.

Best, Jon