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Thread: Current State of the Shotgun

  1. #21
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Former military, now happily a civilian suburban homeowner.

    I have always viewed shotguns the way I viewed mortars whilst in the military.

    They are large, heavy, and a beyotch to tote around at times. The ammo must be handled manually, and there are not many efficient ways to lug that ammo, either.

    But, however, comma, just like mortars, when employed in their normal scope of usage by a skilled operator, they are devastatingly effective.

    I've got over a dozen AR's, and my primary home defense gun is a BCM middy which has been ever so faithful. But if I had to repel boarders with one of my five defensive shotguns, I feel I could do so.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post

    ....But not for a shooter on a budget. A pump gun needs LOTS of training and practice to run effectively for SD purposes...recoil is heavy, reloads are tricky, most people think birdshot is good for SD...and good defensive ammo is actually pretty pricey.

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    Yup, by and large, I'd rather have an AR too. However, some people are dead set on shotgun/bird shot for HD. Those people need to be taken to a good class so they can learn to run one. Then hopefully they'll have the first hand epiphany of how much that Recoil batters you, how much the reloads can wind up bad quick, and see some reports of how people hit with birdshot are just dandy and keep truckin'. Then maybe they'll wonder if there really is a lighter recoiling and higher capacity alternative that would be easier to handle...


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  3. #23
    Site Supporter Bigghoss's Avatar
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    I wish the 20 gauge would get more attention than it does. It seems to be gaining some traction but not much.

    I have a few shotguns. My main is a Mossberg 500 that I swapped a 590a1 front end on and now it wears Magpul furniture. One day I'll probably relegate it to training/practice status in favor of a regular 590 with the standard weight barrel. Those 590a1 barrels are heavy. The Magpul stuff is the tits, love it. Looks cool, feels good, LOP is adjustable (even at 6' 2" tall a 14" LOP is too damn long. Why do they even make stocks that long?) reasonably priced, and it's easy to mount a light too with out acting like a cheese grater to your hands. I like the Mossbergs the controls are just in a more natural place to me so long as you don't want to use stock with a PG.

    At work we have M500's that some dumbass decided would be good to have AR-style collapsing stocks and PG's, I think they're Knoxx. Our less-lethal guns are more M500's with similar type stocks but they're the dirt-cheapest pieces of shit I've ever had the misfortune of touching and whoever is responsible for making those things should be thrown in prison and passed around for cigarettes. I've brought up several times that with those stocks you can't reach the controls but nobody listens. Luckily I have an M4 issued to me so I probably won't have to use one.
    Last edited by Bigghoss; 07-02-2017 at 05:00 PM.

  4. #24
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    A pump gun needs LOTS of training and practice to run effectively for SD purposes...recoil is heavy, reloads are tricky
    I disagree. Not that recoil is heavy, it is. Or that reloads are tricky. They are. What I disagree with is you need to be very good for SD purposes. Reloading is a big skill for games and something of a skill for timmy, but show me a home invasion that required a shotgun to be reloaded to resolve. I've yet to have someone lose against a home invader who discharged a shotgun. I've seen them lose when the gun was taken from them, when they couldn't get the trigger lock off, but every single person who's fired the shotgun won either by incapacitating or causing the flight of the suspect(s).

    The physical and psychological affect of the shotgun blast at close range has won the day every time. Personally, I suspect the sheer level of noise and muzzle blast are tough to stand up to mentally, and the physical damage from decent buckshot is tough to argue with. I will also say the same is true of ARs, though, and the AR is easier to use as well. It's arguable if it's easier to maintain for the "stick in the closet and hope you never need it crowd". Pump guns don't care if they are completely dry of lube. They are reliable at a much lower price point than a quality AR (although that gap has closed lately). Long guns are just easier to use in general and don't require the same level of proficiency as handguns to be effective with.

  5. #25
    I see most of our people now, especially the younger ones, jumping out on calls with AR's, since just about everyone has one now.

    We were all issued new 14" 870's in 2010. Those of us on SWAT got rifle sights, the rest had bead sights, since, you know, only SWAT needs rifle sights.

    We still use them on SWAT some, and I will carry mine sometimes when clearing a house. I don't see many people grabbing them outside of SWAT.

    We did have a fatal OIS where the officer used an 870 years ago (00 buck). It was very effective.


  6. #26
    Site Supporter Trukinjp13's Avatar
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    Not much for science and what not. But last time I checked,

    9 .33 caliber pellets> 1 .223

    I am actually looking into possibly selling my 590a1 to get a 1301 for hd. My ar-15 is fun to shoot groundhogs and coons. But if I am protecting my home or putting food on the table it is with the 12g.


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  7. #27
    I'm not LE, and never have been. - - Aren't there plenty of situations in an urban environment where buckshot at close in ranges is more desirable than sending rifle rounds down range ? Seems like the shotgun would still fill a role. Perhaps the LE guys can comment.


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  8. #28
    Civilian/reserve LE.

    Ohio has been shotguns with slugs only for deer for decades. They recently added straight walled rifle cartridges. Still lots of shotguns around.

    For me, beside the bed is a Russian double barrel coach gun with some buck in the butt cuff and in the closet, an 870 with buck and slugs mixed in the butt cuff and shell belt. I keep my long guns empty with ammo on the gun. I am more likely to need something for 4 legged pests than anything else.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    I disagree. Not that recoil is heavy, it is. Or that reloads are tricky. They are. What I disagree with is you need to be very good for SD purposes. Reloading is a big skill for games and something of a skill for timmy, but show me a home invasion that required a shotgun to be reloaded to resolve. I've yet to have someone lose against a home invader who discharged a shotgun. I've seen them lose when the gun was taken from them, when they couldn't get the trigger lock off, but every single person who's fired the shotgun won either by incapacitating or causing the flight of the suspect(s).

    The physical and psychological affect of the shotgun blast at close range has won the day every time. Personally, I suspect the sheer level of noise and muzzle blast are tough to stand up to mentally, and the physical damage from decent buckshot is tough to argue with. I will also say the same is true of ARs, though, and the AR is easier to use as well. It's arguable if it's easier to maintain for the "stick in the closet and hope you never need it crowd". Pump guns don't care if they are completely dry of lube. They are reliable at a much lower price point than a quality AR (although that gap has closed lately). Long guns are just easier to use in general and don't require the same level of proficiency as handguns to be effective with.
    Great perspective - mancrush material!

  10. #30
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC215 View Post
    I see most of our people now, especially the younger ones, jumping out on calls with AR's, since just about everyone has one now.

    We were all issued new 14" 870's in 2010. Those of us on SWAT got rifle sights, the rest had bead sights, since, you know, only SWAT needs rifle sights.

    We still use them on SWAT some, and I will carry mine sometimes when clearing a house. I don't see many people grabbing them outside of SWAT.

    We did have a fatal OIS where the officer used an 870 years ago (00 buck). It was very effective.

    A 14" 870 with rifle sights...

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