The real hurdle for LE...

[Duces Tecum]

The video was so repetitively offensive I didn't watch the whole thing, being the snowflake I am. But that doesn't stop me from having an opinion on the matter. Snowflakes are indomitable.

While the approach shown in the video draws attention away from the central issue, some of it might be reasonable under certain circumstances. Think of it as a form of insurance. During a person's lifetime of contact with cops, it might not be uncommon for one or more of the interactions to not go as wished: one of the parties misinterprets the actions of the other. The consequence begins at hurt feelings and escalates. So it is not unreasonable for the civilian to preemptively attempt to minimize the (remote but possible) negative results of the encounter: "My name is so-and-so. I am eight years old. I won't hurt you". After all, we teach our children to look both ways at an intersection, even when the "Walk" light is on. It's insurance against the remote.

Were I a cop and an eight year old tried to defuse the meeting by assuring me that she won't hurt me, I hope I'd respond with kindness. It would be a way to reinforce to the 8 year old that respect for authorities is a good thing, and that her behavior has some influence over the result of the interview. I see that as a net positive, especially the last bit.

The central issue is largely, but not entirely, a structural problem. By definition, structural problems are not resolvable at the individual level. The difficulty is this. We have an entire (and growing) class of people who are now, and have been for generations, invested in victimhood. If they were held strictly responsible for their own behavior(s), the social benefits of victimization would materially reduce and possibly disappear entirely. On the other hand, the more their problems are perceived as the responsibility of others, the greater their social benefits accrue (of all kinds, including set-asides and discriminatory hiring). When the government has a thumb on the scale, the incentives lay with the thumb. No longer is victimhood shameful. We, as a society, have made it lucrative and resistant to change.

There is, to my mind, no way individual cops can alter the victim mentality of an entire class of people. This problem rightfully goes into the "Too Hard" box.

[blues]

Were I a cop and an eight year old tried to defuse the meeting by assuring me that she won't hurt me, I hope I'd respond with kindness. It would be a way to reinforce to the 8 year old that respect for authorities is a good thing, and that her behavior has some influence over the result of the interview. I see that as a net positive, especially the last bit.

As a white male I'm in no position to evaluate the black experience regarding interactions with the police except via secondhand through black friends and former partners.

That said, I can remember as a youth growing up in NYC during the turbulent 60's and early 70's having had less than positive encounters with police based upon my appearance (long hair) and attitude (big mouth).

I'd been knocked into the street with a cross check from a baton for having the temerity to tell a cop on foot patrol that I lived in the neighborhood and that I was just talking to a friend outside a candy store when I was told to "move on". I went to rush the cop but better sense kicked in before the worst could ensue.

Many a time driving the streets of Manhattan with friends our car was forced to the curb by unmarked units whereupon without consent the vehicle and our persons were searched for drugs. The plainclothes officers never showed I.D. When I marched over to a couple of uniforms and complained about the illegal search and rough treatment they only said that though they didn't know the particular cops in question, cops "knew their brothers".

I relate these experiences because I very well remember the hurt and the anger I carried within for a long time at the treatment received when I had done nothing wrong...and wonder if it was responsible in some way for the way I treated the public and my defendants during my career in L.E.

I always took pains to let those I arrested or investigated know that they would be treated with respect if they treated us with respect, and I never administered a beating to anyone who wasn't fighting us or attempting to escape. The same went for obtaining statements and confessions. While outwitting a defendant was fair game, using any method that involved physicality or any sort of deprivation was completely out of the question.

I was fortunate to have a 100% conviction record in federal court and was equally proud of the fact that defendants, even those who were arrested in rough and tumble fashion always let it be known to the court that they were treated fairly while under my jurisdiction.

Don't have all the answers to the problems faced by our country and society as a whole but I did take responsibility for my actions and did what I could to ensure that no one had a reason to feel that they were unjustly singled out or treated unfairly.

Taking responsibility on both sides of the law is key, imho. Otherwise it's all just lip service.

[orionz06]

That said, I can remember as a youth growing up in NYC during the turbulent 60's and early 70's having had less than positive encounters with police based upon my appearance (long hair) and attitude (big mouth).

Similar boat. Long hair got me all kinds of negative attention and harassment.


All parties involved need to recognize a problem, and the correct problem, before it can be solved. Seems we're quite far from that.

[TCB]

Just watched the video, the parents gave pretty solid advice that mirrors what I do in off duty encounters with on duty LE. They also show thier bias against the police and that is carrying over to their children, reenforcing what they "see all the time on the news". Best way to handle this? Be nice, be professional, keep up on your training in all aspects of your career, be understanding of the life experiences of the people in the community you work in and have a plan to kill everyone you see (as well as the ones you can't).

[GardoneVT]

How does LE approach this in a logical and effective way?

How should the average LEO approach this type of rhetoric?

Serious discussion, I want to know what people think and viable answers. This is a serious issue which will just continue to cycle.

Trigger warning, void where prohibited, not responsible for hurt feelings , etcetera and so forth.

Here's the bottom line. Poor, violent, and dead black people are a profit center for certain areas of society. It is a cruel but solid social and statistical fact.

Consider for a moment the last urban political ad you saw. It probably had people saying something to the effect of "Vote Candidate X. They'll solve violence, put kids back in school, and fix the community!" Now picture how that ad would go if crime was low,kids were predominantly in school and the community didn't need much fixing. One man's civic problem is another man's political opprotunity.

Black kids on the street equates to job security for greedy politicians .Actually fixing the issues means people might not re-elect an incumbent. Unfortunately police answer to those same politicians, and they're the ones who sign off on the community projects which might make a difference. The political failures can range from simple self interest all the way up to organized corruption so deep Al Capone's ghost would applaud it. It's all driven by civic unrest at the lowest level.

Then there's the media.Bad news always sells more ad time and copy then good news. A group of kids from the block who achieve scholastic and personal success never make it to Channel 7 without Someone in a Suit using them for a public set piece. Generally the media only reports the evils of the black culture because it sells. If that same community got its act together, there'd be fewer violent crime and assaults. Which means fewer reasons to watch the local affiliate.

Neither business entity gains from a productive black culture. It all appears to have started with the decline of Americas industrial might in the 70s and 80s, when black culture was actually very Family focused and conservative. My grandfather worked at a factory, voted Democrat (note back then the liberal/conservative polarity was totally different) ,and kept a 30-30 over the fireplace. Then the factory went away , right when crack and hard drugs started infiltrating American society.

My grandpa landed on his feet in a different business, but most black men weren't so fortunate. Left with a family to feed and no job prospects to make it happen ,they turned to drugs as a last resort. The toll of the drug game is violence and incarceration, so when that first generation of dope dealers and users died or got locked up their kids -now fatherless- did the same.

Forty years later it's now socially engrained. Being a dope dealer or criminal isn't something done for lack of options: it's done now because it's expected. Being a criminal is like being a third generation college grad or military member; uncle ,pop and even Aunt Bessie slung drugs so it's up to Junior to carry on the tradition.Just like a middle class Maryland family wouldn't necessarily react well if a son of a fourth generation Navy admiral said he wanted to become a rancher and hated the military , it's the same premise when a man or woman of color hits the books instead of the corner.

What's the one common thread the crooked politician, the ambitious District Attorney, the journalism major running an unprofitable news business, and the clueless kids on the street share?

Dislike of the police.
Blaming the cops is that rarest of public acts- it comes with no consequences. No one lost an election because they talked bad about the police.
Lie on camera and the police are duty bound to tell the truth ,or remain silent. If a thug gets shot doing what thugs do, his family -beneficiaries of his criminal lifestyle- isn't bound by a code of ethics. A college professor needing a PhD project can write a fifty page dissertation blaming police for black on black crime and not only will they not be censured; they might actually be applauded .

Politicians love blaming cops. It's like a Reset button for community relations. Need the black community's vote? Pick a politically undesirable singular or group of officers, single them out for judicial action or a show trial (see Baltimore for a recent example). Boom, you're suddenly a politician "doing something" who can now cruise into reelection. Oh man, black kid got shot because a member of the department you cut the training budget of had an ND ? Toss him or her in front of a judge and boom....reload community relations from last good save. Actually solving the core problems of the black community is bad for business.

So instead of teaching black citizens how use of force actually works and that they can stand up to armed crime, better for all parties' bottom lines that they teach children fear instead.

[voodoo_man]

Trigger warning, void where prohibited, not responsible for hurt feelings , etcetera and so forth.

*Snip*

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Good points, which I've seen first hand play out while working some of the poorest areas America has to offer.

The other easily identifiable thing I'd like to add is that many of these youth don't see themselves being old, or getting old. Most of their friends and family members were killed or OD'd a long time ago and they do not see any reason to invest in the American way of life as in working and having a traditional family. I dont know if identifying this is the right direction but I do know that for the street level patrol LEO in the US it's important to be educated in this particular subculture.

If for no other reason than survival.

[MistWolf]

One problem is the tradition of politicians keeping their distance and hands clean by using the police to deal with unsavory issues. When things go sideways, those same politicians will throw the police under the bus to keep own image from being besmirched. Many of the citizenry treat the police the same way. It makes relations with police more difficult.

I rarely get officers who come up and ask me "Do you know why I pulled you over?" because before they say anything I say "Good morning, officer. What can I do for you?" Once, I'd had a bad night at work and was frustrated by getting pulled over for drunk driving two, three times a month (I don't drink) and let my frustration creep into my tone. The officer stepped back, put his hand near his sidearm and said "So, THAT'S how it's going to be, is it?" I took a deep breath and said "I apologize. I had a rough night and didn't mean to start taking it out on you. How about we both start over?" He relaxed, I relaxed and we both started over, had a pleasant conversation and ended things well.

I try not to get into arguments with police officers. The officer is either going to cite me or not and other than being polite, the only way I can get the officer to let me go with a warning is to tell an amusing, self deprecating story.

I also feel my interactions with the police go better when both sides aren't stand-offish

[SamAdams]

I'm not black, so I don't have the experiences that black people have. I have talked with black friends about this, but they were also in the military at that time. Later I talked with black friends who were also young professionals. These friends and colleagues came from a middle class American background, just like me. None were from poor ghettos. I have more in common with those friends than any white snowflake Antifa puke.
The one thing they said that really hit me is that white people won't solve the problems in the black community. Black people need to do that, but a lot of people benefit from the state of conflict.

An interesting fellow to watch/listen to on this topic is Pastor David Manning. You can find him on YouTube & other places. I don't agree with everything he says, but what do I know about it ? I'm not black, and he is.


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[octagon]

I'm not black, so I don't have the experiences that black people have. I have talked with black friends about this, but they were also in the military at that time. Later I talked with black friends who were also young professionals. These friends and colleagues came from a middle class American background, just like me. None were from poor ghettos. I have more in common with those friends than any white snowflake Antifa puke.
The one thing they said that really hit me is that white people won't solve the problems in the black community. Black people need to do that, but a lot of people benefit from the state of conflict.

An interesting fellow to watch/listen to on this topic is Pastor David Manning. You can find him on YouTube & other places. I don't agree with everything he says, but what do I know about it ? I'm not black, and he is.


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Good points and valid issue with trying to empathize with people from a different culture,background,class or race. I know a huge part of my understanding came from my time in the Army. My room mate was black and a former member of the Vice Lords from Chicago. Many other guys in my immediate circle were black and from urban areas where I was white from rural/suburban area. Understanding and seeing the differences and the commonalities was influential. Things that made no difference to me were very important to them and vice versa. Sharing in the good and suffering in the Army as equals also brings a camaraderie that is incredibly strong. This was a two way street with these guys getting a better understanding of middle class rural white guys and made us all better for it even with arguments and problems.

I think if more people were placed in challenging circumstances with a variety of people from diverse backgrounds and had to work together to solve issues things would improve just with the experience. Our armed forces are great for this but obvious we don't want to water them down by having compulsory military service. However for those not able to or desire not to serve militarily there should be a similar service program to help develop skills,training and serve the public here and abroad with military like contract and discipline and organization but not with weapons or fighting. I know there is Peace Corp and national service but none are compulsory and not run like military where equal suffering,discipline and accomplishments through team work build better people the same way.

Imagine giving young people a basic training where they learn to work together, learn first aid skills,marching and do obstacle courses etc.. all but the fighting stuff. Then they move onto an AIT like training where they learn a skill or job they can use throughout their life. After they get sent to a unit where they go and do work to help the poor,improve infrastructure,build or repair homes or even work in industry all getting experience. 2-5 years later when their contract is up they enter the outside world better prepared to work with more diverse people, have experience and training. This would be so much better than the college/university system of partying,cliques and self segregation done throughout K-12 school. And no Safe spaces and protest against hearing a view or opinion you don't agree with.