I believe this to be true. In all likelihood, everyone here has at one time known someone who carried serious misconceptions as to why events transpired for them the way they did. It's almost impossible to fix it even in one-on-one, face-to-face contexts, let alone remotely and societally with people we don't even know.Originally Posted by walker2713
yep. got to the same point and was ready to hurl my laptop across the room.
Didn't even make it that far.
I watched the whole thing. Aside from the race specific commentary, it sounds remarkably like a conversation my dad had with me about interacting with the police and someone in the chain of command (Sqd ldr, Plt Sgt, 1st Sgt) had with me about interacting with the polizei when I got to West Germany. i'll leave my thoughts on brainwashing, damn near terrorizing the kids out of this.
Haven't said it as much here as I have elsewhere, we're our own worst enemies because we do a lousy job communicating with the community, not onky when we are individually in contact with them but as organizations. This is beyond that. This is deeply embedded and is buying into, repeating the bovine fecal matter that may have been factual in some places 20, 30, 40+ years ago. We need to sit down with these people and present the other side, our side, in one on one conversations, in group settings, to communities. Do I think we'd be successful? Not in a large enough sampling to matter. But at least we'd be having the conversation ... IF they're willing to have it. It is
Another part of the discussion has to be the realities cops see that the BLM people are willfully blind to: % of victim/witness identified suspects by race, % of those who assault/try to kill/kill officers by race.
While we will likey never get the media to back off of their over-sensationalizing of events, we need to get people to understand the effect that is having on the public. And how coverage of that type is creating real problems on the street, the road.
Clearly I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Yeah, I hit that 57 second mark and stopped it before I wound up rolling my eyes out of my skull.
Is there a need to dispel this kind of ignorant, blind fear-mongering? Abso-freaking-lutely. The problem is getting any room on the platform to talk, but even then these sorts of folks aren't interested in the conversation. To them, law enforcement is the enemy. Full stop, period.
Anything out of the mouth of a LEO is "propaganda". For many the only thing that may affect perception is irrefutable video evidence, but there will still be hold-outs then.
“Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”
I watched the entire video, it's pretty much what I expected to hear. I think the parents had good intentions, at least they are having some type of conversation about interacting with the police. One thing that we have to realize is that their experiences are their experiences. I can't simply discount what someone tells me simply because I haven't personally experienced it. When interacting with black people I always try to keep that in mind. If it's a situation where I can try and educate them about what to do when interacting with the police and they are receptive to learning, then we have that conversation.
However, I will never be one of those people that say they never see color or that race doesn't matter.
I see color everyday and it guides a lot of my interaction with people, even when I don't want to admit it. I think I have that luxury, because as a black man I can say that without the fear of being labeled a racist. Not saying that it's fair, but it is the truth. The problems in the black community are just that. They're problems in the black community that should be addressed. Instead of addressing the core issues of "why", for many people its simply easier to blame the police.
Let me provide an example.
In my city there is an epidemic of aggravated robberies right now. Crooks have figured out its faster and easier to take down an entire business and rob everyone in it in less than 5 minutes, than it is to stand on a corner and sell dope all day. These robbers are virtually all black males between the ages of 16 - 24 and the majority are gang members. My department has been involved in many shootings with these robbery crews. Most times, momma, along with the local community activist ends on on TV asking why did the police have to shoot her boy.
However one question that is never asked by the black community is why our 16-24 year old males are turning to robbery (or any other crime) in mass numbers. Why are they they turning to gangs for support instead of their families? I think the question is never asked because we all know the answer. For anyone that doesn't know, its poor education, poverty, lack of jobs, the decimation of the black family (in large part due to the war on drugs....go figure), etc..etc.etc.
So rather bring those issues to the forefront, it's so much easier to simply blame the police. It's much easier to say that we need police reform that it is to say we need to solve the issue of father absenteeism in the black community.
Now, this isn't letting the Criminal Justice system off the hook. However, I think the true underlying issue is a societal problem rather than a CJ or a police problem, that goes all the way back to emancipation.
Last edited by andre3k; 07-02-2017 at 06:42 AM.
From my observations, there are many in the black community not interested in changing the dynamic. The current glorification of the "thug life" sure isn't helping either.
I have black friends who get made fun of/harassed by other blacks for "being too white" simply because they dress respectably and don't talk ghetto. Some came from shit circumstances and are making something of themselves. So because they have the discipline and drive to pull themselves out of the mud so to speak, they get torn down by their own. That right there is a huge problem.
“Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”
I finally had time to watch the whole video. As a retired LEO with my own experiences and A LOT of cultural diversity and community police training who worked in a very cultural diverse community I believe there are ways to help keep the message from getting worse and help correct the mentality that some of these parents have and pass onto their children. Nothing is perfect and the effort will take time but there are at least ways and measures that can be taken to improve the situation. I am not an expert or community policing fan as it is often practiced and any comment here is my own opinion.
We as the police community need to do our part. That, to me means getting officers to participate more with kids in regular activities and in everyday work. Some agencies have such a busy schedule or number of calls for service that this is a seriously difficult challenge but it can at least be improved in some ways. Taking a few moments to talk with kids playing hockey in the street, or basketball in the park etc to get them to see you in a non enforcement setting and as a regular guy/gal. The same goes for adults by stopping by a party or gathering at a home or in the park and saying hi and talking but without the enforcement aspect. We need to do a better job of humanizing ourselves BEFORE an incident. Most peoples contact with LE is when they did something wrong. We need to change that.
Along the same lines our administrators and those put forward to speak for the agency need to do a better and often faster job of explaining critical incidents to lay people. Violence and force is ugly. People often don't understand the realities of it and appropriate use of force so they see something ugly done by the police and quickly judge it to be bad/wrong and then hold onto this idea for future police actions. Admin and spokes-people need to address this as soon as possible after an incident. They need to point out as much as possible the known facts that help explain why the officer may have taken the action they did. A good example is the case where the black male suspect was shot getting out of a white SUV and had a gun. His wife was cell phone videoing the incident and said he only had a book. Sorry I don't remember the case or names. It turned out he did have a gun and was shot by a black officer. The agency quickly presented video and commentary on how the incident took place, proof indicating that the suspect did have a gun by showing video from a gas station CCTV where he had a bulge on his ankle and was later found to have an empty ankle holster for the gun found etc. These actions help eliminate accusations by people who are open to reasonable explanations and pro police. They won't help those blinded by police hate or bias that the police were wrong. It does get more people on the side of looking objectively at an incident that initially looked bad.
Have local leaders,council people,news personalities and similar people like community activists who are often anti police in their sentiments go through force on force training and scenarios. This often changes minds of even the harshest critics when they are forced to empathize and get a real understanding of how fast things happen. Some won't do the training scenarios. But at least it was offered and they were invited so the agency can state that and re-invite those who refused again after an incident.
Similarly having unpaid reserve/volunteer and senior citizen officer programs gets more interaction with regular police, gets these people trained some to help spread a positive word about police and reduces some of the more tedious and mundane activities out of the regular patrol officers responsibilities giving them more time to have non enforcement contact with the public.
LEOs must correct parents and people who think they are being funny when they tell their kids when an officer arrives " The police are here he is going to arrest you" or He is over here officer arrest him" These jokes perpetuate the police are only present to arrest people mentality. I always said to the kids told this by their parents that I only arrest bad people when they do something wrong not little kids so little kids can be safe with bad people off the street.
Having an outside agency investigate high profile and more serious incidents helps alleviate allegations of cover ups. I know this isn't always possible/allowed or expedient but when and where possible on some incidents I think it helps. Again with people open to objective explanations not the hardcore anti police types. Using a state bureau of investigation or state police instead of just doing it all internally.
The community leaders also need to help get the word out on how to behave when interacting with police. How to respond on a typical traffic stop, what to say or not say when their members have a disagreement with police. How to address a complaint or file one with the agency instead of arguing and escalating on the street. If they want to promote "Hands up don't shoot" then promote it as a response to avoid police force rather than a shouted mantra after one.
Community leaders also need to be held accountable for not addressing and stopping anti police chants and rhetoric such as "Pigs in a blanket" Fuck the police" "the only good cop is a dead cop" and similar chants before they turn to violence against police NOT just after if at all. When this doesn't happen the Chief or Mayor needs to point this out clearly and publicly.
When people file complaints against officers that are shown to be blatantly false not just a difference of perspective these cases should be publicized and prosecuted. Too often LE is on the back foot with responding to allegations by the public against them without pointing out where some are blatant lies. When a person says the officer called them a racial or sexual name, used profanity or similar and video/audio proves clearly the officer did not then prosecute the person and publicly chastise the person in the paper,TV news etc giving another chance to show and state that all complaints against officers are taken seriously and investigated but lies against the police also won't be tolerated.
Community leaders and/or agency admin should also have PSA about the dangers of kids and Airsoft or BB guns, how to video police from a safe distance without interfering with or distracting officers.
I went on way too long for most to read but there is plenty that can be done to help the situation. Getting angry at idiots who cannot be reached because they don't want to be reached or hide behind whatever excuse for their failings won't help anyone and there will always be people like that regardless of police/community and individual efforts.
I will add that the OP video reminds me of the great divide that is in our own minds portrayed well in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk3tVSJSkQM
I believe you are spot on about the root of this issue being the destruction of black families.
This recent incident in Birmingham is a good example.
http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/in...ck_2_birm.html
Teen steals a credit card from his grandmother, father goes looking for the teen. The teen and his friends shoot at his father, missing but striking and killing an innocent bystander. During the ensuing high speed chase, which the teens are streaming on Facebook, the intentionally ram a police car seriously injuring two officers.
If this is the level of respect he has for his own family are his subsequent interactions with the police any surprise ?
Last edited by HCM; 07-02-2017 at 11:43 AM.
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