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Thread: The real hurdle for LE...

  1. #1

    The real hurdle for LE...



    How does LE approach this in a logical and effective way?

    How should the average LEO approach this type of rhetoric?

    Serious discussion, I want to know what people think and viable answers. This is a serious issue which will just continue to cycle.
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  2. #2
    Site Supporter walker2713's Avatar
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    Well, I managed to watch 57 seconds of it, and will leave comments and suggestions to wiser and more patient heads than mine.

    You're right, VDM....this is a serious problem.
    Gun Free Zones Aren’t an Inhibition….they’re an Invitation.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    I've got nothing. Save for the old quote: "Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired."
    -Jonathan Swift

    I'm serious. I'll be interested to see what solutions people with actual apllied experience come up with. Following.

  4. #4
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    I don't think any meaningful change will come about with any action by a law enforcement officer to change that dynamic given the obvious underlying problems. This starts with a lack of critical thinking ability instilled by parents and a lack of teaching students to question information even when it conforms with your views, or makes you angry; example being the public taking information at face value, such as a news story saying a cop did something bad. A simple understanding of the underlying facts and laws would allow most people to understand that the cops did nothing wrong in most controversial news stories. Instead, they are incensed by these news stories portraying cops having done something wrong, take it at face value, get even angrier due to the speed of social media fueling the flames, and they run with it. That results in what you saw here, where the young lady said, "But it keeps happening!?" What keeps happening? Officers doing something bad, or someone attacking an officer who happens to be black, and BLM, social media and the news industry spreading falsified narratives?

    The one lady was saying that you shouldn't argue with the police (I'm guessing when they give you an order), but said it with an attitude that sounded as if it's wrong they can't argue with the police.........as if they should have that ability, and the simple fact that they can't for risk of having force used against them is an injustice. That issue? You can't have a sit down and talk that out. I honestly don't know what the answer is to that other than law enforcement agencies backing up their folks in the use of force instead of consistently shirking frivolous lawsuits and blaming the officers. If the state (i.e. police) is to have any hope of legitimized force to begin with, then they have to stand behind their mandate. Appeasement (our nation's current direction) sure as fuck isn't the solution.
    Last edited by TGS; 07-01-2017 at 12:15 PM.
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  5. #5
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    One should always consider the source, IMHO (I couldn't help it; I had to have a look at the producers of that vid...)

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  6. #6
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    I don't have an answer to your question, but damn...I feel bad for those kids...

  7. #7
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    Those parents seem to be unhappy about life and foolish.

    Yesterday I dealt with suspicious 2 white guys and a 1 suspicious black guy. They were all together. The white guys looked highly questionable but the black guy looked clean cut and like an average joe. They were told to leave the area. If the black guy had be alone , I would have thought nothing of him.

    The point being, race does not matter. Values and actions matter, which includes the company you keep.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by walker2713 View Post
    Well, I managed to watch 57 seconds of it, and will leave comments and suggestions to wiser and more patient heads than mine.

    You're right, VDM....this is a serious problem.
    I watched the whole thing.

    Being able to digest the entire argument on both sides is the best way to figure out what your personal bias is and how to find the most logical, factual way through a topic/situation.

    It may bother the hell out of you to do this, but suppress the emotional response (which is what they want by making this video) and see what the other side is talking about, what points they are making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    I've got nothing. Save for the old quote: "Reasoning will never make a man correct an ill opinion, which by reasoning he never acquired."
    -Jonathan Swift

    I'm serious. I'll be interested to see what solutions people with actual apllied experience come up with. Following.
    While I understand the context of not arguing with a person who may not have the ability to comprehend your particular point, especially in this context where the people may not have the knowledge to be able to have a proper conversation on a given topic, the fact that they are pushing this line of rhetoric onto their children, is a big issue. Even a small part of that young generation considering this to be "the way it is" is not just wrong, it is counter to the American way of life.

    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I don't think any meaningful change will come about with any action by a law enforcement officer to change that dynamic given the obvious underlying problems. This starts with a lack of critical thinking ability instilled by parents and a lack of teaching students to question information even when it conforms with your views, or makes you angry; example being the public taking information at face value, such as a news story saying a cop did something bad. A simple understanding of the underlying facts and laws would allow most people to understand that the cops did nothing wrong in most controversial news stories. Instead, they are incensed by these news stories portraying cops having done something wrong, take it at face value, get even angrier due to the speed of social media fueling the flames, and they run with it. That results in what you saw here, where the young lady said, "But it keeps happening!?" What keeps happening? Officers doing something bad, or someone attacking an officer who happens to be black, and BLM, social media and the news industry spreading falsified narratives?

    The one lady was saying that you shouldn't argue with the police (I'm guessing when they give you an order), but said it with an attitude that sounded as if it's wrong they can't argue with the police.........as if they should have that ability, and the simple fact that they can't for risk of having force used against them is an injustice. That issue? You can't have a sit down and talk that out. I honestly don't know what the answer is to that other than law enforcement agencies backing up their folks in the use of force instead of consistently shirking frivolous lawsuits and blaming the officers. If the state (i.e. police) is to have any hope of legitimized force to begin with, then they have to stand behind their mandate. Appeasement (our nation's current direction) sure as fuck isn't the solution.
    I agree that education and understanding of that education through applicable knowledge is probably the way to combat this.

    I have tried, in person, to do this on numerous occasions, especially with persons I have arrested during processing and the knee jerk response is "you are white and therefore anything you say is a lie and racist." This is such a reoccurring theme that having conversations with the people who are arrested is nearly pointless, especially from a specific demographic.

    I have seen this with some of the officer's I work with on a daily basis, those who were raised during a very separated era in America and the level of which racism (towards everyone who isn't their race) is so serious that you cannot have a proper conversation with them in any of these contexts.

    Aside from having this discussion face to face, aside from the probably impossible level of education required for the average person to undergo to understand the context of the media and police-citizen interactions, what else is there? How can the street officers who come in contact with these types of people everyday do different to aid in changing the way they understand how LE operates?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    One should always consider the source, IMHO (I couldn't help it; I had to have a look at the producers of that vid...)

    https://www.facebook.com/WatchCut/

    https://buy.cut.com
    True, the source is important, but just because they are bias does not necessarily mean they are wrong and just because some of the content is wrong does not mean all of it is wrong or based on an incorrect premise, speaking generally. They may have a valid point somewhere, but they mask it in a deep seated racism for anyone who is not of their own kind, making it impossible to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by MI Law View Post
    I don't have an answer to your question, but damn...I feel bad for those kids...
    "...but think of the children!"

    How a parent raises their children should be their business and their decision alone. This is America after all, right? Those parents should not be told how to raise their children no different than we should. The issue here is, how do we change the perception of these kids and parents on a street level approach by LE.
    VDMSR.com
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    Those parents seem to be unhappy about life and foolish.

    Yesterday I dealt with suspicious 2 white guys and a 1 suspicious black guy. They were all together. The white guys looked highly questionable but the black guy looked clean cut and like an average joe. They were told to leave the area. If the black guy had be alone , I would have thought nothing of him.

    The point being, race does not matter. Values and actions matter, which includes the company you keep.
    Of course that is true, but how do we project this onto the types of people and the culture exposed in this video?
    VDMSR.com
    Chief Developer for V Development Group
    Everything I post I do so as a private individual who is not representing any company or organization.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter walker2713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    I watched the whole thing.

    Being able to digest the entire argument on both sides is the best way to figure out what your personal bias is and how to find the most logical, factual way through a topic/situation.
    I understand what you're saying, but I simply don't have the patience for it....plus the fact that in this case my personal bias isn't the problem.

    There are things in life that can't be fixed.
    Gun Free Zones Aren’t an Inhibition….they’re an Invitation.

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