Glock MHS Entry Pistols

[Gio]

Is there a load or loads that generally work with brand X barrels or is it really individual barrel dependent? What determines how these loads work in different barrels? Powder, bullet weight, bullet shape, bullet composition, OAL?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

All of the above. I've taken two loads with the same bullet, same velocity, and different powders, and gotten 4" out of one and 2" out of the other. For the barrel, twist rate is important, but you also have to consider the velocity of the bullet too. You can over or under stabilize a bullet with the wrong twist rate that doesnt match the weight and velocity of the projectile. I talked to one barrel manufacturer who recommends a different twist rate for 147gr minor pf uspsa loads compared to 147gr jhp defense loads.

[txdpd]

Different barrel as mentioned in another comment.

My G19 with ZEV barrel was giving 1.5" groups with RMR attached. I'm not surprised at all by this. Glocks are a lot more mechanically accurate than people give them credit for; however, shootability may not be as high as say a custom 1911 with a 2lb trigger (captain obvious).

I've gotten many 1.5" +/-.5" groups at 25 yards from various Glocks using a Ransom rest, 147gr Winchesters and realigning the sights between shot. Without the rest I am lucky if I'm hitting 4" using a barricade. Other times it's 4-5" off the rest and interestingly it's still 4-5" off the barricade. I'll agree that Glocks are capable of excellent mechanical accuracy, but not always easy to shoot accurately.

[spinmove_]

All of the above. I've taken two loads with the same bullet, same velocity, and different powders, and gotten 4" out of one and 2" out of the other. For the barrel, twist rate is important, but you also have to consider the velocity of the bullet too. You can over or under stabilize a bullet with the wrong twist rate that doesnt match the weight and velocity of the projectile. I talked to one barrel manufacturer who recommends a different twist rate for 147gr minor pf uspsa loads compared to 147gr jhp defense loads.

That's...bordering on voodoo. So one could have a set of 3 G19Gen4 pistols with everything stock and theoretically there's a chance that each one of those samples would need a totally different load to hit the same group metrics?


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[LittleLebowski]

Why not let those of us who like thumb safeties get a thumb safety?

Sorry, I phrased that poorly. Let's try "hopefully, there is an option to purchase one without a thumb safety."

[Jeep]

Sorry, I phrased that poorly. Let's try "hopefully, there is an option to purchase one without a thumb safety."

Agreed. Options are good. One-size-fits-all not so good.

[BigT]

Sorry, I phrased that poorly. Let's try "hopefully, there is an option to purchase one without a thumb safety."

I would be shocked if the safety is an option at all on commercial guns.

[TiroFijo]

All of the above. I've taken two loads with the same bullet, same velocity, and different powders, and gotten 4" out of one and 2" out of the other. For the barrel, twist rate is important, but you also have to consider the velocity of the bullet too. You can over or under stabilize a bullet with the wrong twist rate that doesnt match the weight and velocity of the projectile. I talked to one barrel manufacturer who recommends a different twist rate for 147gr minor pf uspsa loads compared to 147gr jhp defense loads.

A 9 mm bullet is quite shorter than a 38 spl / 357 mag bullet, and these calibers work quite well with a 1/18.75" twist.

Most handgun calibers work perfectly with 1/16" or so twist, this actually is FAR more than required for stabilization. "Stabilization" (defined as the stability factor, normally > 1.5 in all conditions, required for the bullet to fly point forward and not tumble) is not the word here, perhaps secundary gyroscopic effects would be more appropriate.

The 9 mm P has a twist of 1-10" out of tradition, not need. The main variable is the bullet construction, not the weight. Some pistols shoot everything great, other not so.

I would take X manufaturer's (or custom smith) broad claims with a grain of salt...

[Gio]

That's...bordering on voodoo. So one could have a set of 3 G19Gen4 pistols with everything stock and theoretically there's a chance that each one of those samples would need a totally different load to hit the same group metrics?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

That's very possible, but I've seen more consistency when you shoot the same load through multiple different versions of the same gun. I see that a lot with our agency issued Glocks...almost all of them will shoot the exact same size groups with the same ammo. Some of them shoot 3" high or 3" low, but they all group about the same. Usually, if we see an accuracy problem that is an outlier, there is something else causing it such as damage to the gun.

I think the bigger issue is that certain guns/barrels like certain loads, and what your gun likes may not be what you're shooting through it. One positive about a Glock is you can really tune your gun to the load you want to shoot because of the plethora of aftermarket barrel options. For some other guns, you may have to experiment with several different makes of bullets and powders to find the best combination. I am OCD when it comes to tuning my competition loads to my competition guns though. I would imagine the vast majority don't care. And, does it really matter for USPSA? Doubtful, but I like to know without a doubt that when I miss a low percentage shot, it's me and not the equipment.

[Gio]

I would take X manufaturer's (or custom smith) broad claims with a grain of salt...

I agree 100%.

Also, I am far from a ballistic SME. I have access to just enough data to be dangerous and have done a decent amount of experimentation with various barrels and guns off a ransom rest. I'm fortunate that my agency worries about all this stuff for me for my issued and personal weapons, so I only really focus on it with regards to reloading for competition. For USPSA, in addition to being soft and accurate, I also need it to be cheap. A buddy of mine has a 1:12 and 1:14 coming from KKM that we are going to test (their standard is 1:16, the Glock factory is 1:10). I'm looking forward to seeing how that makes my coated 147gr 135pf USPSA minor loads group.

[Gray222]

While I am sure it will sell, I will not purchase a pistol with training wheels. (manual safety)