VP9 dead trigger due to impact issue (split from Personal SIG 320 Journey thread)

[TiroFijo]

Took me three tries and I got this to happen on mine (BF date code, sold as an LE model). Very interesting. Just set the striker and gave it a moderate (but firm) whack on my kitchen counter....dead trigger. I agree with others that in theory at least this shouldn't lead to a discharge, as the striker block should still be in place, but this is without question something that is important to be aware of.

The striker is blocked, but it would still give me the creeps... it is a fully tensioned striker, imagine having a S80 1911 with the safety off, you wack the grip and the hammer falls...

The other thing is going ?????? when you have a dead trigger out of the blue. Easy and fast to fix, but disconcerting.

[RJ]

Mods,
I don't want to hijack the thread, but felt compelled to show a differing opinion.

Enel,
Granted I didn't use a mallet, but the top of a dresser. No dropped striker/no dead trigger. I don't want to get into a flame war, but maybe your VP9 has a defect?

Interesting thread.

From @ADKilla's video, it looks to me like the grip is impacted front first.

From @Enel's video, the mallet strikes the rear of the grip first.

Those of you who would know, could this make a difference in the effect internally on the VP9 trigger of an impulse force like a mallet strike?

[breakingtime91]

Didn't something like this basically kill the FNS on this board?

[texasaggie2005]

Didn't something like this basically kill the FNS on this board?

Apologies for the thread drift.

I had an early FNS that the "common FNS trigger" issue. If you manually reset the trigger while the slide was forwards, it would result in a dead trigger and a locked slide until you returned the trigger to the rear and manipulated the slide.

[breakingtime91]

I had an early FNS that the "common FNS trigger" issue. If you manually reset the trigger while the slide was locked back, it would result in a dead trigger and require a slide manipulation to fix.

Why does that seem less of a big deal than what some Vp9 is showing? Hm

[Peally]

Why does that seem less of a big deal than what some Vp9 is showing? Hm

If I understand what he's saying wouldn't that disable the pistol any time a slide lock reload is done?

The obnoxious fabric snagging catch lip thing on the magazines is what ruins FNs for me

[breakingtime91]

If I understand what he's saying wouldn't that disable the pistol any time a slide lock reload is done?

The obnoxious fabric snagging catch lip thing on the magazines is what ruins FNs for me

Bro your on another level speed wise but I don't even think you could manage to manually reset the trigger during a reload. Ya they were neat pistols but never got me with that coolness. I just find it interesting that these two guns seem to have something interesting happening but the FNS seemed to gain a lot more traction.

[texasaggie2005]

Why does that seem less of a big deal than what some Vp9 is showing? Hm

If I understand what he's saying wouldn't that disable the pistol any time a slide lock reload is done?

The obnoxious fabric snagging catch lip thing on the magazines is what ruins FNs for me

Please note I submitted my post before I was finished editing. I mis-remembered the issue and had to look it up. I corrected the post and added a video example.

[archangel]

Ultimately none of us can escape Bad Luck.

I'm reminded of a wild LE story some years back. An officer armed with a thigh holstered P226 in a Safariland ALS stacked up to serve a warrant when the bad guy started shooting through the open door. Officer drew his Sig and pointed an empty frame at an armed and dangerous suspect . Fortunately his partners were on the ball ,so he survived the event.

Turned out one of the rounds the thug fired hit the holster in exactly the right place to trip the P226's takedown lever in place without its owner knowing.Thus the slide stayed in the holster.

We pays our money and takes our chances.

Would have to have done more than just trip the takedown lever. Normally the slide needs to be fully to the rear for the lever to rotate, and mag needs to be removed for the slide to come forward off the frame. So the round likely destroyed / removed from the frame the takedown lever, and also affected the mag release causing the mag to at least partially eject.

Either way, though, crazy scenario to have happen!

Mods,
I don't want to hijack the thread, but felt compelled to show a differing opinion.

Enel,
Granted I didn't use a mallet, but the top of a dresser. No dropped striker/no dead trigger. I don't want to get into a flame war, but maybe your VP9 has a defect?

It works better with a nylon hammer, but it drops the striker every time. The gun would not go off due to the striker channel blocker, but the trigger is dead until the slide is run.

Those impacts are coming from different angles. If we consider the impact as coming straight up, in the mallet test the gun is oriented slightly muzzle up, and the dresser test, the gun is muzzle down.

In a muzzle-up impact, the inertia of the slide could cause it to be retracted slightly relative to the frame. (similar to what happens during auto-forwarding, except here the slide is moving slightly out of battery, vs moving slightly back off the slide catch) That may play a role in whether or not the striker drops.

[Rick_ICT]

In the first video,the pistol is held by the slide from the forward end. In the latter,its held in the grip.

It strikes me as important because holstered ,the VP9 would be retained by a holster,probably supported in the fashion of Video 1. The $64,000 question is will the gun do this in a holster if the grip is bashed against the concrete ,say in a hands on fight situation.

Wow, fascinating thread. After reading it, I immediately had to go grab the VP9 out of the safe and a big rubber mallet from the garage and try it for myself. At first, I held the gun as if in a strong-hand only firing grip and whacked the bejeezus out of the bottom of the grip repeatedly. I could not get the striker to release no matter what, even whacking it hard enough to simulate what I thought would likely be the impact from slipping and bashing the butt of the pistol onto hard ground.

Then I remembered GardoneVT's post, and tried gripping the pistol around the front of the slide/dust cover and sure enough, I was able to get it to release with a whack on the butt of the gun. It wouldn't happen every whack, but it would do it somewhat frequently and with a much lighter hit than what I was using when I had a proper grip on the pistol and couldn't get it to release.

So, at least with my sample of one, it appears that how you are holding the pistol does make a difference on whether or not you can reproduce these results.

Very interesting, indeed!