NFA Registry is seriously flawed

[CCT125US]

Still curious how the actual files are kept. Do they file back to front, front to back. I would think It would have to be by the owner, and therefore pretty simple... but then I have never worked for the government. I do however understand how paperwork can get misplaced, for example, our monthly CC statement should be filed back to front. If my wife does it, she informs me I have been doing it wrong. I would think .gov would have work instructions. Oh nevermind, I see where this is going. Because work instructions solve everything.

[MistWolf]

The reason the records at the ATF are antiquated is because we demand steps be taken to prevent any kind of registry of firearms and their owners. That means the ATF is prevented by law from updating their filing system without coming under scrutiny or entering the information into a computer

[TAZ]

Say it isn't so. Government beuricracy sucking in tax $$ but giving nothing useful back to the tax payer. I'm shocked I tell you.

[ReverendMeat]

The reason the records at the ATF are antiquated is because we demand steps be taken to prevent any kind of registry of firearms and their owners. That means the ATF is prevented by law from updating their filing system without coming under scrutiny or entering the information into a computer

We're talking about the NFA registry. Which is, uh, already a registry and thus cannot be prevented from becoming a registry. Are you saying that the ATF is prevented by law from using computers to update the registry they already are allowed by law to have?

[MistWolf]

I believe it affects the NFA registry as well. The idea is, gun guys don't want the .gov to have an easily searchable computer file. In California, they forced the registration of what they defined as "assault weapons" with the DOJ and tied it in with police computers. When an officer responded to a call, the officer would receive a notification if there was a registered "assault weapon" at the address or nearby

[BWT]

The reason the records at the ATF are antiquated is because we demand steps be taken to prevent any kind of registry of firearms and their owners. That means the ATF is prevented by law from updating their filing system without coming under scrutiny or entering the information into a computer

I respect you and your opinion, but I've never seen anyone express this concern regarding NFA items.

I don't know everything and I'll readily admit that but, I don't think this is the case.

If this were the case then how were E-Filing of Forms 1 made possible?

God Bless,

Brandon

[MistWolf]

I respect you and your opinion, but I've never seen anyone express this concern regarding NFA items.

I don't know everything and I'll readily admit that but, I don't think this is the case.

If this were the case then how were E-Filing of Forms 1 made possible?

God Bless,

Brandon

That's a good point about E-Filing. I don't know how they handle the records of e-filed forms.

The point I'm trying to make is, LEO agencies cannot simply look up a firearm on their computer and find out who it belongs to, whether it's regular firearms or NFA items. The agency has to contact the ATF and have the ATF search their records. In order to protect our privacy, laws have been put in place to limit what the ATF can do to upgrade their filing system. Gun rights groups watch them closely.

The only file LEO agencies can access is the list of stolen firearms. When a police officer runs the serial number of a firearm, the only information they can get is whether or not it's been stolen and if it's stolen, they can find out who it was stolen from, when it was stolen and so on. If the firearm is not stolen, they only information they get is that it's not on the stolen list.

In California, the DOJ does keep a list of handguns sold through FFLs. Later, they created a registry of what the state defined as "assault weapons". I believe now, all firearms sold or transferred through FFLs are on record. The state started going through that list to see if any of the owners of record have, since purchase, committed an act that would bar them from the possession of firearms and were planning to confiscate them. I don't know if they've started confiscation or not

[Odin Bravo One]

I like that they are all hosed up.

I'd be worried if they weren't. An effective/efficient government would scare the hell outta me.

[Eurodriver]

I have no issue with the NFA registry being a big covfefe. In fact, I prefer it...

[RevolverRob]

4473s only go to the ATF when a dealer goes out of business otherwise they are maintained by the dealer for 20 years and then they can be destroyed. ( 27 CFR 478.129(b))

ATF was only recently allowed to convert paper 4473s they have received from out-of-business dealers from paper to scanned editions, but they are not allowed to be of a searchable format (to avoid the potential for databasing). It remains to be seen what computerized 4473s will mean for the ATF, but my sense is they have to be printed and sent to the ATF in hard copy. The ATF literally has storage containers of boxes of 4473s that aren't filed or sorted in any way. Not alphabetized, not date coded, etc. The closest they have is knowing what dealer the forms came from (in most cases, not all).

It's fantastic. The standard (non-NFA) 4473s should not even be maintained by the federal government, at all, in my opinion. But under the current framework they have very little ability to do anything. Now - under the NFA it should be very well maintained, but it isn't, and this isn't a surprise, because we're talking about a registry that has existed since 1934 and has had very different rules at very different times. And paperwork wasn't maintained well in the beginning, it certainly isn't maintained well now.

Which begs the question...if the NFA Registry is a mess and cannot be reconciled and the cost of reconciliation is potentially making innocent people criminals...why do we have an NFA Registry?