Can a local shop order the ammo for you?Originally Posted by LSW
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Can a local shop order the ammo for you?
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
4LD is uses as a standard for a simple reason:
People like shooting bare gel or water jugs because it makes prettily expanded bullets that look like the ones from catalog photographs and it makes them feel good about their carry round because they think expansion performs a function other than reducing the likelihood of dramatic overpenetration. :shrug:"There is not reason to believe that ammunition expansion performance will be sensitive to small variations in the denim, and good reason to believe that it will not. Four layers of denim is a convenient standard because this can be obtained simply by folding the cloth twice; either 3 or 5 layers does not appear to produce dramatically different results." -Duncan MacPherson
With the current state of affairs, I wouldn't carry ammo not loaded by Federal, CCI/Speer, or Hornady. I used to carry Winchester, but they've joined Remington in a race to the bottom in ammo QC.
Underwood, Double Tap, Cor-Bon, and those other boutique manufacturers? If you want to carry that for self-defense, knock yourself out, but I ain't.
.44 Spl, .45 Colt (and many 230gr .45ACP loadings) are barely fast enough to expand reliably out of shorter-barreled guns when presented with any sort of situation other than bare gel/water.
I used to be all about my beloved .44 Spl wheelguns and 200gr GDHP or Federal 200gr LSWC-HP. Now I'd rather have a J-frame with six .32 H&R Mag 95gr LSWC than a snubnose Airweight L with five rounds of whatever. I mean, they all do the same thing; shoot clean through the jello block and stop in the clothes on the far side...
If I had a time machine, I'd go back to when I bought this 296 and buy a 242 instead. An L-frame Centennial snubbie loaded with seven shots of Federal Gold Medal Match 148gr HBWC would be the heat.
Thanks again for the info, any idea what velocity you were getting from the .44 gold dot in that test (I'm guessing sub 800 out of the 2.5"?) and what the threshold for expansion in 4LD would be? I've seen it tested at 875 fps out of a 6" barrel, I'm hopefully getting around 850 out of my 5" but like most of my stuff I had to leave my chrono in the L48.
Last edited by LSW; 04-20-2019 at 10:41 PM.
Not that same day, but the same lot of ammo averaged 811.9 fps for a ten shot string out of that same 296 a few years earlier.
Bear in mind that clear gel tends to cause bullets to under-expand. I've seen the 200gr GDHP expand really well in bare ordnance gel, but there it ran into the same problem as the 165gr Critical Defense: Vigorous expansion and mediocre penetration.
These days I tend to look at .44 Spl the same way I look at .38 Spl, basically, in that I think chasing expansion is a red herring.
165gr Critical Defense in bare gel: Beautiful expansion. Woeful underpenetration.
Last edited by Tamara; 04-21-2019 at 07:50 AM.
I talked to the Hornady folks awhile ago about this. They told me the Crit Def load was designed for civilian self-defense and was actually loaded to only penetrate 9-10" on purpose.
I didn't really like that answer.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Does anyone have the Quickload reloading software? What does 44 SPL do when loaded to 21,000 PSI? Does the increase in pressure translate into a meaningful gain in velocity with a variety of bullets from a short barrel?
21,000 is SAAMI pressure for 45 Auto and should be quite safe in both old and new revolvers alike especially since there are a bunch of Smith 25s and 1917s out there that haven't blown up over the years.
Brian Pearce, in his data published some years ago, shows a 200gr JHP running 1100-ish from a 4.25" barrel. These are Cat Two loads with a max pressure of 22,000 psi or lower.
Sure wish one of the "big boys" would load some 44 SPL +P ammo. Nothing nuclear. Nothing Keith would be proud of. Just something a bit snappier than what's out there now.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Last edited by Tokarev; 04-21-2019 at 08:06 AM.
In actual terminal effectiveness, what improvement do you think this will offer?
Hard to say.
It would likely do wonders for the Gold Dot since it isn't really going fast enough to expand at 750-800 fps. How would this same bullet do at 900-950 fps? Would it open up so quickly that it fails to make a minimum of 12 inches? My guess is it would open and still fall within the FBI specs especially after something like the clothing barrier.
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Last edited by Tokarev; 04-21-2019 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote