US Navy Destroyer Severely Damaged in Collision

[rcbusmc24]

Because it obviously makes sense to just say "OK, fuck it, we're screwed" and go home...?

And IIRC, it wasn't an admiral, it was a USMC Colonel, and he "won" by having the Iranian "navy" swarm the US in a bazillion bass boats, or whatever the Persian Gulf equivalent is.

That was the MC 02 I talked about upthread... retired major general Paul Van Riper led the red cell during the exercise. There are several reasons given for the "reset " First it was that the operational forces involved had only a 36 hour window to conduct actual landings... the rest of the experiment was notional, and since red cell sank the invasion fleet prior it had to re gen IOT allow the exercise to continue. The other issue was that in order to " try out" developing tech red cell was then limited to the effects it could achieve so to allow the experimentation to continue. The issue with this was that at the time a lot of the tech was still theoretical and it was allowed to assume that it would work perfectly in real life...

The way that the initial red cell attack worked out was that general Ripper launched a premptive attack once the scenario indicated that there was no more averting the "war". MC 02 was not General Rippers first red cell war game. He was known for outside the box thinking. The previous years game he noted that the game was too "scripted " and protested when the post assessment report came out putting words in his mouth. MC 02 was truely notable because the results were leaked before the exercise was even over due to concerns that the DOD would report what it wanted to be true and not the actual results of the exercise. Even after hamstringing the red cell after the initial opening moves...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Thanks for the all the info. Scary times. Just read that Congress is getting antsy about the slow progress of the new frigate project. Sounds kind of like chosing a new hand gun.

[alohadoug]

That was the MC 02 I talked about upthread... retired major general Paul Van Riper led the red cell during the exercise. There are several reasons given for the "reset " First it was that the operational forces involved had only a 36 hour window to conduct actual landings... the rest of the experiment was notional, and since red cell sank the invasion fleet prior it had to re gen IOT allow the exercise to continue. The other issue was that in order to " try out" developing tech red cell was then limited to the effects it could achieve so to allow the experimentation to continue. The issue with this was that at the time a lot of the tech was still theoretical and it was allowed to assume that it would work perfectly in real life...

The way that the initial red cell attack worked out was that general Ripper launched a premptive attack once the scenario indicated that there was no more averting the "war". MC 02 was not General Rippers first red cell war game. He was known for outside the box thinking. The previous years game he noted that the game was too "scripted " and protested when the post assessment report came out putting words in his mouth. MC 02 was truely notable because the results were leaked before the exercise was even over due to concerns that the DOD would report what it wanted to be true and not the actual results of the exercise. Even after hamstringing the red cell after the initial opening moves...

Similar situation when I was at III Corps at Fort Hood. During exercise focusing on a landmass in Asia, we had intel that a sapper was going to strike Corps HQ with backpack nuke (early 2000's). Corps CG didn't care b/c report was HUMINT not SIGINT or IMINT, his comment "I don't care about that 'he said/she said' bullshit." So when the nuke leveled Corps HQ, the CG backed the exercise up six hours and suddenly deployed an MP battalion (plus three separate Infantry Companies) along the ingress route...

[Stephanie B]

More info regarding the USS Fitzgerald collision. Pretty depressing. There are several more articles shown at the bottom of the linked page.
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...l-that-hit-it/

Painful to read. Arguably, Fitzgerald should have been CASREP’t and welded to a pier.

I think the Navy is overextended. Some admiral needs to put his stars on the line and say “unable.”

[EMC]

Great story:

https://features.propublica.org/navy...crash-crystal/

[KeithH]

Hard to believe this actually happened.

[Jaywalker]

Fitz can't have bene the only one with problems, and why aren't the admirals who allowed it to go on facing their own inquiries?

[Dog Guy]

https://news.usni.org/2019/04/10/nav...ers-of-censure
Further developments: criminal charges against the CO and TAO are being dropped. They're still having their careers ended though.

[farscott]

While the incident involving the USS Fitzgerald is disheartening at best, a look at US military history has shown that the country has never properly been prepared for the next big war, especially after a long time of "peace". During peace, the spending on serious fighting training and equipment gets spent on something else. Personnel levels are cut, equipment funding slowed, etc. Then we are attacked, a whole lot of money and manpower flows into the defense complex, and we use our initiative and abilities to find a way to win. Usually at great cost, especially in lives. But that is how the USA has always prepared -- or not prepared as is the case.

In the GWOT, surface ships have had minimal value, most in missile launches and air superiority over Iraq. China, especially, is trying to build up the ability to stop the USA from projecting naval power, especially carrier-based power. My fear is that history will rhyme and we will lose at least one carrier group in a conventional conflict. That will be the impetus for the war machine to get unlimbered.

[GardoneVT]

While the incident involving the USS Fitzgerald is disheartening at best, a look at US military history has shown that the country has never properly been prepared for the next big war, especially after a long time of "peace".

It is human nature. All militaries suffer the same weakness- effective management of an armed force during peacetime requires different skills from those during a shooting war. Unconventional and brash thinkers don’t do well in committee hearings, and bureaucratically talented managers make poor wartime generals. You need both types of leaders, but at different times.