Questions about post 41F purchases

[Paul D]

I am ready to get back into the NFA thing post 41F. I saw some heavily discounted cans and I got to get them. I have some questions for those who have experience filing a Form 1 or Form 4 under this new rule. I will be filing as a corporation with two responsible persons (me and my wife). I live in the Phoenix, AZ area. So here it goes:

1. I understand I will need three (3) wet-ink signed copies of the Form 4. Two will go to the ATF and one to the CLEO. In my case this the Maricopa County Sheriff (Paul Penzone) at MCSO - ATF Unit, 111 S. 3rd Ave., 2nd Floor, Phoenix, Arizona 85003. Correct?

2. I will need to have two (2) copies of the Form 23 (responsible persons form) each from me and my wife. One each will go to the ATF and one to the CLEO. Each form has a 2x2 passport photo. Each photo has to be within 1 year of the purchase date, right? CLEO copy does NOT need a photo, right?

3. I will need one (1) copy of my corporate papers only to be sent to the ATF but none to the CLEO.

4. I will need two (2) FD-258 FBI fingerprint cards for each responsible person to be sent to the ATF but not the CLEO. Question: can I just go get a stack of FD-258 cards printed and saved for future use or must they be new each time. I figured getting 8 each would save time/hassle in the future.

5. Send the two Form 4s, two Form 23s, 4 fingerprint cards, corporate papers and a check to BATFE to the Atlanta office.

6. The 41F rules said you did not have to resubmit the fingerprints and Form 23's if it is within 24 months of a post 41F submission. Is this true?

Thanks in advance!

[baddean]

Paul,
I have filed both the form 4 (9 months ago) and recently the from 1 post 41F.
So, with that said, you can go here: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/..._group_ref=All
to download any current form. All of the forms have detailed instructions with them. If you have pre 41F forms, discard them and use the current forms. They can be printed from the web site and do not need to be front to back.
You indicated that you might be acquiring multiple cans. All of the instruction in your post must be done for each can.
Using your above numbering system:
1. Correct. The second ATF copy will be returned to you......someday (for me currently nine months and counting). Form 4 https://www.atf.gov/file/61546/download
2. Correct. Form 5320.23 https://www.atf.gov/file/107266/download
3. Correct.
4. First part,correct. There is no indication in the form instructions that the finger prints need be current, so I don't see why you could not print more for future use.
My county LEO used to print no charge, but now, due to the volume of applications that go through my county he is charging $10 per card. Don't know if yours might charge.
My county LEO asked what they were for but didn't care how many. And, they require payment in cash.
5. You will send four form 4s (duplicates for each person) and two form 23s. The rest is correct.
6. No. The 24 months refers to the documentation of your corporate entity. See below exact wording from the form 4.
(b) If the transferee entity has had an application approved as a maker or transferee within the preceding 24 months of the date of filing this application, and there has been no change to the documentation evidencing the existence and validity of the entity previously provided, the entity may provide a certification that the information has not been changed since the prior approval and shall identify the application for which the documentation had been submitted by form number, serial number, and date approved.
And from the Q&A section of the ATF General 41F Questions:
Q. If an application was approved within the preceding 24 months, are fingerprint cards and photographs required to be submitted with a new application?
A. Yes. The 24-month exemption for providing supporting “documentation” refers only to the documentation proving the existence of an entity, such as trusts or corporate paperwork. The Form 5320.23 with attached photograph and fingerprint cards are required for each person identified as a responsible person for each submission in order to initiate the required background check. See instruction 2 d. (4) and (5) on the Forms 1, 4, and 5.

On the form 4 there is line (13) that says "Transferee Necessity Statement". Your response should be something simple such as "for any and all legal purposes"
Some 41F info form the ATF web site:
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...ective-july-13

Hope all of this is helpful.
I've replied to the best of my ability but you should double check everything anyway.
Dean

[Paul D]

@baddean

Thanks for your help! I saw a Ti-Rant 45 can for $400. Gotta have it.

[baddean]

Paul,
That's a great buy. Even with the tax stamp it will be below MSRP.

[gringop]

Bumping this thread as it has gotten me looking at a cans and trusts again.

My question is re. the HPA. The text on the summary reads "Any person who pays a transfer tax on a silencer after October 22, 2015, may receive a refund of such tax."

The word "may" is pinging my radar, does anyone know or have a link to info that clarifies this?

If I stand to to get a refund, I'm ready to start the process now. If not, waiting may make sense.

Gringop


https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...house-bill/367

***********************************
There is one summary for H.R.367. Bill summaries are authored by CRS.
Shown Here:
Introduced in House (01/09/2017)

Hearing Protection Act of 2017

This bill amends the Internal Revenue Code to: (1) eliminate the $200 transfer tax on firearm silencers, and (2) treat any person who acquires or possesses a firearm silencer as meeting any registration or licensing requirements of the National Firearms Act with respect to such silencer. Any person who pays a transfer tax on a silencer after October 22, 2015, may receive a refund of such tax.

The bill amends the federal criminal code to preempt state or local laws that tax or regulate firearm silencers.
*************************************

[TR675]

Bumping this thread as it has gotten me looking at a cans and trusts again.

My question is re. the HPA. The text on the summary reads "Any person who pays a transfer tax on a silencer after October 22, 2015, may receive a refund of such tax."

The word "may" is pinging my radar, does anyone know or have a link to info that clarifies this?

If I stand to to get a refund, I'm ready to start the process now. If not, waiting may make sense.

HPA was DOA. It was never a real priority and at this point I can't believe it's on anyone's radar at all.

[baddean]

While this bill is picking up cosponsors it has been sitting in a sub-committee since Feb. 6.
The tax refund is not mentioned in the wording of the bill itself which might account for the "may receive a refund'" in the summary.
One would think that the longer this bill sits in committee, and the further it gets from the Oct. 22, 2015 date, the less likely it is that a refund would be made. At least from that date. Remember that this was the date the original HPA (H.R.3799) was introduced in 2015.
That could be a lot of refunds.
Recently the wording from this bill was tucked into another measure called "Sportsmen’s Heritage and Recreational Enhancement (SHARE) Act."
A hearing on that measure has been cancelled.
Some info here:
https://naturalresources.house.gov/u..._share_act.pdf
and here:
http://gunsinthenews.com/hearing-pro...ortsmens-bill/
And here:
http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/356...aring-canceled