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Thread: Raven Concealment

  1. #31
    Member Rich@CCC's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    Youngstown, OH
    Irelander,
    Do you have any idea of the expense in R&D and tooling to produce an injection molded thingamajig? It is a major investment.
    TANSTAAFL

    Managing Partner, Custom Carry Concepts, LLC

  2. #32
    Member
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    Nov 2016
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    N.A.
    I just picked up a couple of Copia mag carriers from Raven.

    Tom from Dark Star Gear recommended I check them out when I asked him about getting some good mag carriers.

    To me that spoke volumes about both companies.

  3. #33
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    Apr 2014
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    NW Florida
    Quote Originally Posted by RCSMichael View Post
    The opened bottom near the muzzle of the pistol is a change we instituted due to demand from our .gov and .mil contracts. They found that during CQB, it was not uncommon to have ejected casings from the pistol bounce off the wall (usually in residential hallways or passageways on-board ships) and fall into the mouth of the empty holster. The opening at the bottom was not big enough to allow the casing to fall through, and the casing prevented reholstering the weapon. Unless the shooter had VERY long fingers, the only way to get the casing out was to invert the holster, which meant taking it off or doing a hand stand or cartwheel...none of which are good options in that scenario. After multiple trials, the opening you now see on the holster was selected because it ensures that even a spent .45 ACP casing will fall straight through. We felt that this fix was worthy of applying even to products sold to civilians.
    That's certainly not something I'd think of on my own, but I can certainly understand how that could happen and be a problem. It sounds like a good improvement.

  4. #34
    Member
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    Dec 2011
    Location
    Austin,TX
    Ive been using Raven since they were small time. I would be a little put off if I ordered one and got something different but now that it's been explained I would have no problem with it. Raven has always had a good rep and their quality has been very consistent over the years.

    Oh, and I think the Eidolon is priced fairly considering all the R&D that went into it.
    Last edited by secondstoryguy; 06-05-2017 at 01:19 PM.

  5. #35
    I can say from personal experience that Raven's Phantoms are a lot nicer now that they originally were.

    I had to heat and adjust a couple of them back around '08-'09 timeframe and that was common. I also broke a belt loop when they were kydex.

    Fast forward to 2015 when I got an X300U. I ordered a Phantom and it was a much nicer holster than the older ones. I just got one for my 43 and it appears to be more precisely made than the 2015.

    Whatever they're doing is good.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich@CCC View Post
    Irelander,
    Do you have any idea of the expense in R&D and tooling to produce an injection molded thingamajig? It is a major investment.
    Very much this. Injection molding setup and R&D is very expensive, especially for something with as many extra parts as the Eidelon. The Eidelon "basic" kit (basically the holster and over the belt hooks) is only $60.

  7. #37
    Site Supporter Irelander's Avatar
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    Apr 2014
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    Venango County, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich@CCC View Post
    Irelander,
    Do you have any idea of the expense in R&D and tooling to produce an injection molded thingamajig? It is a major investment.
    Oh yeah I do. I work in the industry.

    Like I said, it works for me and I'd buy another one. I might actually be buying another one soon.
    Jesus paid a debt he did not owe,
    Because I owed a debt I could not pay.

  8. #38
    I haven't bought a Raven product, direct, in a VERY long time. In fact, it was when they were still doing custom work, and they did belt sheaths for a couple of Emersons. RCSMichael's response, along with the Jframe VG, will get me back on the RCS bandwagon.
    Last edited by theJanitor; 06-05-2017 at 03:24 PM.

  9. #39
    Member TXBK's Avatar
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    Mar 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Maca View Post
    Michael - i have been a customer for several years, and have at least a dozen of your phantom holsters.

    Is it possible to order an HK 45C holster, as it is no longer listed on the website?
    I recently inquired about a holster that isn't listed. The rep that I spoke to said that their custom shop is not taking custom orders right now, due to demand from some sort of government/LE contract(s). I cannot remember the exact words that were used, but it was something like that. I have a pile of RCS holsters and they are my first stop when I am looking for a new one. I hated to hear that they aren't taking custom orders right now.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by RCSMichael View Post
    Our holsters originally were compression-formed by hand from Kydex. They are now vacuum formed and CNC trimmed. We switched to Boltaron years ago (2012-ish) after repeated issues with Kydex's quality control (or lack thereof). When people inquire via phone or email, the staff is trained to simply explain that they are formed differently now, mainly because most people aren't interested in an in-depth explanation of plastics manufacturing processes. I apologize if our CS staff's explanation left you to make assumptions as to just what this process was, but I can assure you that the holster is NOT a "cheapened product."

    We were one of the last holster companies to adopt vacuum forming and CNC routing. Nowadays, the vast majority of holster companies -- even the 1 and 2 man shops -- use the same process to make holsters. That's because it is faster, more consistent, and more cost effective. For eleven years, we have consistently made incremental improvements to our products and processes, and I can tell you that the Phantoms coming off the line today have better fitment, more precise form, and a superior consistency than ones we produced even two or three years ago. It's a continuous evolution, which is also why our product images aren't always 100% current on the site. If I did a re-shoot on product images every time we made a change or improvement, I'd be spending an incredible amount of money on product photography that could be better used in making improvements to the company and products.

    The opened bottom near the muzzle of the pistol is a change we instituted due to demand from our .gov and .mil contracts. They found that during CQB, it was not uncommon to have ejected casings from the pistol bounce off the wall (usually in residential hallways or passageways on-board ships) and fall into the mouth of the empty holster. The opening at the bottom was not big enough to allow the casing to fall through, and the casing prevented reholstering the weapon. Unless the shooter had VERY long fingers, the only way to get the casing out was to invert the holster, which meant taking it off or doing a hand stand or cartwheel...none of which are good options in that scenario. After multiple trials, the opening you now see on the holster was selected because it ensures that even a spent .45 ACP casing will fall straight through. We felt that this fix was worthy of applying even to products sold to civilians.

    The fact remains that, whether vacuum formed, compression formed, or injection molded, our products are priced based on their design and performance attributes; not their manufacturing method. Cheap, shitty holsters are cheap and shitty because that's how they are designed. Being injection molded isn't what made them shitty -- their design and tooling did. Our injection molded products are actually vastly superior to our products that are thermoformed from extruded sheets of polymer, simply because injection molding allows us to do things that are not possible with bent pieces of plastic. Don't be so quick to judge a product based on which manufacturing process was used; look instead at the execution of that process.
    Really wish you would offer a 1QMS 1 Pancake loop option!


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