Page 3 of 12 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 115

Thread: Raven Concealment

  1. #21
    Site Supporter orionz06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by KyNate View Post
    Hey man I ain't bashing anyone but when a manufacturer doesn't update their website and I get something in the mail that doesn't look a thing like what I ordered and then I call said company and they tell me its a new design and its not made out of Kydex which is whats clearly stated on the website I get upset about it. I'm simply reporting my experiences. The information in my first post is exactly what I was told. I decided to investigate further thus the reason for a updated post with more information. I'm just relaying my experiences the only ones making Raven look bad is Raven. They should do a better job updating the website and making sure the people answering the phones know what they are talking about. My opinion is that something sounds funny "TO ME" and I wont be spending my money on a phantom holster. I'm not saying they are good or bad. I also wasn't aware that Kydex was a generic term. I guess I can start making cheap plastic holster now and call them Kydex. Glock may be considered a generic term to some people to mean pistol so I'm going to go git me a Hi-Point and list it as a Glock on Armslist and when someone complains I'm going to say oh that's a generic term for a pistol sorry.
    The problem here is they could have told you exactly what they do, how they do it, and what they do it with and by the time it hits a forum post it's so distorted and incorrect, just like the initial post in this thread, that it's the customer misrepresenting them.


    Kydex is a brand of material. Boltaron is a brand of material. They both produce extruded acrylic sheet stock used for all sorts of things. Unless a consumer is purchasing for a contract requiring a specific material they're better off not knowing the material at all. I don't list material on my site at all. It's very clearly not worth the hassle when someone with a phd in Google decides to investigate.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  2. #22
    Trivial Matter Expert Sidheshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    PacNW
    Mods here are shit™

    The thermoplastic descriptions on Tom's site, too.


  3. #23
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    It looks like Goerlich has an account here (I'm assuming that's who @RCSMichael is) but he hasn't swung by since last September.

    And can you blame him?
    PF sucks, mods are shit.

  4. #24
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    SWLA
    Quote Originally Posted by KyNate View Post
    Hey man I ain't bashing anyone but when a manufacturer doesn't update their website and I get something in the mail that doesn't look a thing like what I ordered and then I call said company and they tell me its a new design and its not made out of Kydex which is whats clearly stated on the website I get upset about it. I'm simply reporting my experiences. The information in my first post is exactly what I was told. I decided to investigate further thus the reason for a updated post with more information. I'm just relaying my experiences the only ones making Raven look bad is Raven. They should do a better job updating the website and making sure the people answering the phones know what they are talking about. My opinion is that something sounds funny "TO ME" and I wont be spending my money on a phantom holster. I'm not saying they are good or bad. I also wasn't aware that Kydex was a generic term. I guess I can start making cheap plastic holster now and call them Kydex. Glock may be considered a generic term to some people to mean pistol so I'm going to go git me a Hi-Point and list it as a Glock on Armslist and when someone complains I'm going to say oh that's a generic term for a pistol sorry.
    I'm curious to see a pic of the holster before you send it back.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by KyNate View Post
    I just talked to someone higher up at Raven. Apparently the Phantom Holster hasn't been made of Kydex in years and the gentleman I spoke with claimed that Kydex is a generic term and they have been using a new type of Plastic/Polymer/Material for a while. He then told me that the Phantom holsters are not Injection molded but formed differently but didn't really clarify. The Phantom holsters they have pictured are the old design as well the new design has an open bottom and looks slightly different. I will still be returning it because I feel like something fishy is going on. The Eidolon and the Morrigan are Injection Molded but they also cost 50 dollars. I'm not going to take a chance on a cheapened product personally but that's just me and keep in mind when I asked for a manager they sent me to the "Sales Manager" so make of that what you will.
    Our holsters originally were compression-formed by hand from Kydex. They are now vacuum formed and CNC trimmed. We switched to Boltaron years ago (2012-ish) after repeated issues with Kydex's quality control (or lack thereof). When people inquire via phone or email, the staff is trained to simply explain that they are formed differently now, mainly because most people aren't interested in an in-depth explanation of plastics manufacturing processes. I apologize if our CS staff's explanation left you to make assumptions as to just what this process was, but I can assure you that the holster is NOT a "cheapened product."

    We were one of the last holster companies to adopt vacuum forming and CNC routing. Nowadays, the vast majority of holster companies -- even the 1 and 2 man shops -- use the same process to make holsters. That's because it is faster, more consistent, and more cost effective. For eleven years, we have consistently made incremental improvements to our products and processes, and I can tell you that the Phantoms coming off the line today have better fitment, more precise form, and a superior consistency than ones we produced even two or three years ago. It's a continuous evolution, which is also why our product images aren't always 100% current on the site. If I did a re-shoot on product images every time we made a change or improvement, I'd be spending an incredible amount of money on product photography that could be better used in making improvements to the company and products.

    The opened bottom near the muzzle of the pistol is a change we instituted due to demand from our .gov and .mil contracts. They found that during CQB, it was not uncommon to have ejected casings from the pistol bounce off the wall (usually in residential hallways or passageways on-board ships) and fall into the mouth of the empty holster. The opening at the bottom was not big enough to allow the casing to fall through, and the casing prevented reholstering the weapon. Unless the shooter had VERY long fingers, the only way to get the casing out was to invert the holster, which meant taking it off or doing a hand stand or cartwheel...none of which are good options in that scenario. After multiple trials, the opening you now see on the holster was selected because it ensures that even a spent .45 ACP casing will fall straight through. We felt that this fix was worthy of applying even to products sold to civilians.

    The fact remains that, whether vacuum formed, compression formed, or injection molded, our products are priced based on their design and performance attributes; not their manufacturing method. Cheap, shitty holsters are cheap and shitty because that's how they are designed. Being injection molded isn't what made them shitty -- their design and tooling did. Our injection molded products are actually vastly superior to our products that are thermoformed from extruded sheets of polymer, simply because injection molding allows us to do things that are not possible with bent pieces of plastic. Don't be so quick to judge a product based on which manufacturing process was used; look instead at the execution of that process.
    Michael Goerlich
    Owner
    Raven Concealment Systems, LLC
    www.ravenconcealment.com

  6. #26
    I ordered one of the first Eidelons when they were released. The holster has seen thousands of rounds of use and a lot of daily dry fire and is still my go to holster. I've even done some grappling/BJJ while wearing a SIRT with mine. I've owned all the holsters we all discuss on this site, but have continued to use the Eidelon simply because it offers the best combo of concealment and ride height for me. I say that to LOL at the OP calling their injection molded products "cheap" or poorly designed.

  7. #27
    Known Industry Shill Tamara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    In free-range, non-GMO, organic, fair trade Broad Ripple, IN
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    PF sucks, mods are shit.
    It's the only forum I bother with and the mods are great, but I understand why people in the industry can get forum burnout.
    Last edited by Tamara; 06-05-2017 at 12:39 PM.

  8. #28
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara View Post
    I understand why people in the industry can get forum burnout.
    So do I, but it extends beyond forums. You should read my email...

  9. #29
    Site Supporter orionz06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk View Post
    I say that to LOL at the OP calling their injection molded products "cheap" or poorly designed.
    That's not entirely zir fault. There is a weird sorta pride people have in foam pressed holsters, so much so that there is backlash against them. Neither are necessarily better or worse, it's merely a matter of scale and volume on the manufacturing side. As some holster makers strive towards speed and consistency, as sales dictate, others seem to stress hand made and assign some amount of pride in that. All of that is ironic as years ago the biggest concern was the lead time to get an RCS holster. Now it's mostly gone and many seem to feel that RCS has cheapened things and they spread that around in an effort to elevate their own products.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter Sensei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by RCSMichael View Post
    Our holsters originally were compression-formed by hand from Kydex.
    Thank you for your response. I own more that a few Phantoms. None have ever broke or let me down. My only complaint is that your company never held a public stock offering before I dumped my kid's college fund into your products.
    I like my rifles like my women - short, light, fast, brown, and suppressed.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •