Also known as the ball of the thumb for those who don't want to google.Originally Posted by YVK
Also known as the ball of the thumb for those who don't want to google.
Taking a break from social media.
LOL! You saved me Googles of time.
What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
This is true but only as one gets close to full extension. In self defense one might want or need to soot at eye level without full extension. So having a draw where it works with a decent grip from #2 all the way through #3 has advantages. I suspect that as the bones of the forearm roll inward at full extension the crossing of the sticks just happens. As newer people obtain a decent grip having them drive the support thumb more forward then allows the full benefits of that locked wrist and control of muzzle flip. Sort of a best of both worlds.
What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.
Been working on acquiring the grip coming out of the draw...some last night and a bit today and it's starting to click.
(I'm one of those early 80's LE relics that has used something akin to Mas' "thumb-lock" grip (literally) for decades. Gonna see if I can't make the transition, even at this late date. Or at least give it a fair try before deciding if it's not for me.)
There's nothing civil about this war.
Wow I thought I was the only one. I stuck with that type grip for years after being shown and looking at the thumbs forward grip and trying it some. I even used paint on a red gun to see if the contact area was greater with thumbs forward grip vs thumb lock style grip. I just couldn't switch. Near the end of my time on the job I was shooting less and then I took a year or so off from shooting. I then started again trying to switch to the thumbs forward grip with lots of dry fire and live reps. That has done it for me. I have changed over to use it consistently and under the shortest of time constraints. Good luck.
Thanks for sharing that...gives hope to this old dog.
I've done fine with the old method by and large over the years but the influence of this place makes me want to see if I can do just a bit better.
(I had to laugh last year at my LEOSA quals when one of the deputies told me that my scores for my G26 and G19 were good enough to make their SRT team. I knew, despite the score and from my few years on a team, I was anything but.)
Anyway, it's not for any other reason than for trying not to remain stagnant and hopefully make some positive gains. You never know if it will prove to make a difference down the road and there's nothing lost by trying.
Last edited by blues; 06-07-2017 at 03:29 PM.
There's nothing civil about this war.
I got to learn this technique from Paul during his event with the SoCalGunClub in 2016. That said, I never really appreciated nor understood this technique, as I was fairly NEW to firearms then. But I still tried to incorporate it in my dry practice, even if it were SO awkward.
Then when I competed in my FIRST IDPA match and classifier just a few weeks back, people have commented that there is hardly any muzzle flip when I shoot (am using factory ammo Blazer Brass 115G 9mm). So, am really happy that there was indeed value to it...
That said, I have signed up for Vogel’s class in about two months. I’ll make it a point to check with him on the details of a recommended grip.
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Last edited by rodralig; 06-07-2017 at 03:57 PM.
I think Vogel mentions that he indeed sacrifices a small amount of time to lock in his grip but his advantage overall is big under multiple rounds and rapid fire. But don't quote me on this as I am a bit remote at the moment and don't feel like searching it.
For myself the inward roll happens on press out and I may actually adjust on the actual string of fire. I was able to shoot some video on the topic and I hope to update later with my thoughts on this and what I actually do. Again nothing works for everyone across the board and there is also the possibility of not getting a technique correct off a written description alone.
Having carried a revolver for my first few years OTJ and actually being more of a Chapmanesque type of shooter it was a hard time for me to adjust to a thumbs forward Iso shooter. But when things clicked the progression sped up quickly and rapidly passed beyond where I was at.
Thanks, Surf. Time will tell.
There's nothing civil about this war.
BTW, if Joe doesn't mind expanding on this excellent discussion somewhat, I wanted to share something from a conversation I've been conducting with Mas Ayoob on this topic via PM...I don't think I'll be disclosing any secret information by sharing with my forum brethren...
Agree or not, it's excellent food for thought and discussion, and very timely as I explore whether the transition is right for me personally.After several years with straight thumbs, I went back to the locked down grip. 2 main reasons. From Bill Rogers to Rob Leatham, they agree that the curled down thumb strengthens the hand and is superior for ONE-HANDED defensive shooting.
In a match or qual, we always know beforehand when it will be one-handed or two, but on the street we and our students never know if it will be two-handed until the support hand gets there.
I don't want my people to have to branch between one-handed and two that fast under life threatening stress; with the thumb always locked down, if the support hand does make it up to grasp, a simple thumbprint-over-thumbnail hold completes it without any grip shifting. Second, in gun retention, if the strike to the gun comes by surprise, a curled down thumb can resist the initial disarming attempt much more strongly than straight thumbs.
In the many years since I went back to thumb-lock, I've seen no difference in my qual or match scores from when i shot straight thumbs.
Thoughts?
There's nothing civil about this war.
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