Van hits pedestrians' on London Bridge in 'major incident'

[Chance]

For the life of me I had never seen or heard of such a passion though I know some old railroad buffs kept voluminous records as well.

I've known people who have done similar things, and it's actually not that unusual amongst aviation buffs. I can't recall how sophisticated flight tracking software was back in 2001, so it might have lost its popularity by now.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Man drinking pint while fleeing terror becomes symbol of London spirit

Just an observation on that. In an extreme situation, you may just forget or not consider what you are carrying. Ancedotal data. In the old NTI, we had a stage where you were going to a friend's house with a pizza. You get to the door and find it open and blood everywhere. You were supposed to navigate the place to find your friend, etc., take out bad folks if needed, survive.

There was a touch of debate where some participants said that they were not going in as that was the prudent measure. The staff said - Yep - but for the exercise, in you go.

Anyway, quite a few carried the pizza through the stage as they charged in. These folks didn't question, they just acted. And they brought snacks. I through the pizza to the side before acting and was complimented on this with some staff humor on the pizza carriers.

In an IDPA match, we were supposed to carry a brief case full of 'diamond's through the state. I ditched it and got a penalty. I said that was stupid and let insurance cover it. We then later had stages with the 'diamonds' handcuffed to us. That was a pain to do.

My point being, that the beer carrier might not even had thought of it.

[Totem Polar]

Sorry to hear that.....

I sure didn't agree with all he said, or how he said it, but he definitely brought some different perspectives and experiences to our conversations.

This. I was glad to have the input on English policing.


As others note, he did seem to have the same cultural disdain for armed civilians that many of my european friends have. I've got no problem with that, but a forum like P-F.com is a funny place to express it. A bit like going into a biker bar and talking about how shit Harleys are. I think we were at least as polite as the biker bar, to be frank.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Interesting view on armed civilians. In another thread, I mentioned the Atlantic article by Frum: https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...bridge/529107/

which pointed out why the UK is so much better without guns than us as we might engage in a friendly fire panic attack. It is better waiting for the police.

But we also point out and tear our hair out over folks who as 'gun people' are only 'good enough' (see Karl Rehn's piece in Tom Givens' post of his newsletter). So, we get a viewpoint that the average gun person would be useless or dangerous - thus don't have guns in the population for carry and defense. Another viewpoint is we should have them and let's get folks up to reasonable ability.

I note that the Frum/UK world ignore cases where civilians did help with their firearms. There are lists of these as we know.

PS - in my previous post - I couldn't speel threw, through, thru, throo - or whatever. Oy!

[critter]

This. I was glad to have the input on English policing.


As others note, he did seem to have the same cultural disdain for armed civilians that many of my european friends have. I've got no problem with that, but a forum like P-F.com is a funny place to express it. A bit like going into a biker bar and talking about how shit Harleys are. I think we were at least as polite as the biker bar, to be frank.

This. I was glad to have the input on English policing.


As others note, he did seem to have the same cultural disdain for armed civilians that many of my european friends have. I've got no problem with that, but a forum like P-F.com is a funny place to express it. A bit like going into a biker bar and talking about how shit Harleys are. I think we were at least as polite as the biker bar, to be frank.

Yeah, that seems to be a theme from those who depend upon government to solve everything. While eight minutes may be extraordinary response time for an elite unit, it's an eternity for those under violent unrelenting attack limited to whatever is handy to defend themselves. Yeah, I'd rather (and shall) be the first responder myself.

I enjoyed his perspective and commentary. I didn't notice anyone being impolite or giving him shit. I have little respect for the all too typical "someone disagreed and dared to challenge my commentary... swine unworthy of my pearls." How utterly catastrophic. Balls of solid eggshells. He's probably better off in a climate controlled safe space where the 'attacks' of disagreement from the meanies are held at bay.

[Peally]

It's pretty hard to make "everyone dies" any worse.

[AMC]

Disappointing. I enjoyed his input, and looked forward to meeting him when he next came out to the Bay Area. Maybe I'll PM him and tell him to give me a call. Some people are attributing to "thin skin" what seems to me like clashing cultural norms. We 'Muricans can be a little blunt-nosed 'In yer face' to our cousins across the pond.... especially on an internet forum where things like tone and body language are absent. It's like communicating with your wife by text......you KNOW that's gonna be misinterpreted.

Anyway, my point is that I don't know that he was totally hostile to civilian gun ownership, but the idea was likely very alien to him, given the legal and cultural environment he was raised in. That said....the guy moved to TEXAS for Browning's sake. Hardly a soothing environment for an elitist euro-hoplophobe. And he was a 'Chuteur' after all.

[blues]

Disappointing. I enjoyed his input, and looked forward to meeting him when he next came out to the Bay Area. Maybe I'll PM him and tell him to give me a call. Some people are attributing to "thin skin" what seems to me like clashing cultural norms. We 'Muricans can be a little blunt-nosed 'In yer face' to our cousins across the pond.... especially on an internet forum where things like tone and body language are absent. It's like communicating with your wife by text......you KNOW that's gonna be misinterpreted.

Anyway, my point is that I don't know that he was totally hostile to civilian gun ownership, but the idea was likely very alien to him, given the legal and cultural environment he was raised in. That said....the guy moved to TEXAS for Browning's sake. Hardly a soothing environment for an elitist euro-hoplophobe. And he was a 'Chuteur' after all.

I went over all those little nuances with him and tried to walk him through an explanation...as well as tried to point out where he might have been misunderstood himself.

I guess Nikki Haley's job is safe for the moment.

[walker2713]

I went over all those little nuances with him and tried to walk him through an explanation...as well as tried to point out where he might have been misunderstood himself.

I guess Nikki Haley's job is safe for the moment.

Good you tried!

In spite of the cultural chasm that existed regarding our American gun culture, I think he was respected and appreciated for his experience and views.

Time doesn't heal all wounds, but perhaps he'll be back.

George

[Hambo]

[QUOTE=AMC;612443
Anyway, my point is that I don't know that he was totally hostile to civilian gun ownership, but the idea was likely very alien to him, given the legal and cultural environment he was raised in. That said....the guy moved to TEXAS for Browning's sake. Hardly a soothing environment for an elitist euro-hoplophobe. And he was a 'Chuteur' after all.[/QUOTE]

I never got that he was hostile to gun ownership or gun owners. It seemed to me that he was saying the same thing people here say about general lack of training and ability.