Van hits pedestrians' on London Bridge in 'major incident'

[modrecoil]

I was referring to assimilation generally and not specifically. There has to be some form of assimilation, some form of acceptance of the various facets of a countries identity.

The Boston bombers, at least the older brother was as fanatical as it got. He never assimilated anything other than jihad. His younger brother was too stupid to have a self-derived thought so he is not even worth conversing about.

There cultures you mentioned like the Chinese all pay taxes, most likely. Even though they all live in an ethnocentric bubble they are still in America and they understand, by large numbers, that because they do is why they can live that way wholely unaffected by things which would otherwise affect them in China.

Same could be said for the Amish, Orthodox Jews(and Christians), of any other large immigrant community which likes to keep to itself. Hell, I grew up in that community, but in America. No one in my family was born here, my child is first generation American in my family and regardless of our cultural background, language, experiences or religion we chose to live in America and become part of the American culture because that is freedom materialized. There is no other country in the world, none in the world's history which allows the freedom's which Americans have come to accept passively.

Just to point out, not the people of my culture (Soviet Bloc), not the Chinese, not he Amish, not the Orthodox types, none of them blow themselves up in droves and have the Islam/jihad/whatever name they want to call themselves this week lack of cultural ability or drive to accept freedom for what it is. Unique.

Both Tsarnaev brothers were culturally assimilated. Tamerlan was from an Americanized, mostly secular family, minor boxing celebrity in Boston, permanent resident, listened to American music, dated American women, celebrated American holidays. He didn't become "devout" for 6 years after moving to the US and "fanatical" two years after that. Dzhokhar immigrated even younger (approximately the same age as I was) and was a "typical" American kid by most standards. Maybe you have a different definition of "assimilation". My point is that superficial cultural assimilation is not always enough. It also has nothing to do with taxes.

[Soggy]

"General Sherman's Day at the Beach" is a little tougher to pull off in a predominantly ideological war no?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

True. Or another Dresden. But deciding what to do is "Step 3". "Step 1" is recognizing you are in a war. "Step 2" is deciding if you want to win it. There are many people that are not at Step 1 yet (or won't admit it because it is gauche to do so). Others are at Step 2 and have decided that it is better off if we lose.

[voodoo_man]

Both Tsarnaev brothers were culturally assimilated. Tamerlan was from an Americanized, mostly secular family, minor boxing celebrity in Boston, permanent resident, listened to American music, dated American women, celebrated American holidays. He didn't become "devout" for 6 years after moving to the US and "fanatical" two years after that. Dzhokhar immigrated even younger (approximately the same age as I was) and was a "typical" American kid by most standards. Maybe you have a different definition of "assimilation". My point is that superficial cultural assimilation is not always enough. It also has nothing to do with taxes.

We are talking about two different things then.

What you are talking about sounds more like disregarding your own culture completely for another culture. That isn't going to happen and normally doesn't happen for generations.

[Chuteur]

But according to news, the British Police have far superior tactics to knife attacks than their gun toting, trigger happy American counterparts. It's a real shame that not even the police are so handcuffed that a street cop can't decisively end a situation like this.

The body armour you see BritPol wearing is not bullet resistant, it is actually a stab-proof vest. The lads and lasses refer to them as "stab-proofs", as in "I'm just putting my stab-proof on". It is far, far, far, more likely in the UK that you will get attacked by a drunken knife wielding husband at a domestic incident than you will get attacked by an army of AK toting terrorists - even with what is going on at the moment. Each stab-proof is custom ordered for the officer, in my force we got them from a manufacturer in Germany. There is now a sort of over-vest with pockets in a bit like a tactical vest, there is a torch slot, notebook pockets, mounting slot for a monadnock holster and a handcuff holster.

Counter knife techniques are nothing super ninja, I could show you in about 3 minutes, they are designed to stop the knife from flailing around and doing ongoing damage. I will admit that the techniques have changed a tad over the years and I still like the first method I was taught, and over the years used three times to prevent myself being skewered.

As for the Bobby being handcuffed, 8 minutes is a pretty shit hot response time in anyones book.

[TGS]

After 9/11, I heard a talk by someone in the 'know' (supposedly) who said there were 6000 or so Al-Qaeda types in the USA ready to go. With 6000 folks, you could paralyze the country for a bit. Never happened. The standard answer is that American society is more integrative than Europe and reduces the self-radicalization. If that is true - who knows. Let's hope so. Obviously, the 6000 'ready to go' talk was a touch overblown.

Interestingly, we do a much better job than many European countries. I think the going rate for a refugee getting off the government dole by 3 months is at 87% in America, compared to one of the Scandanavian countries that is around 50% at two years! (Stat given to me by someone at the International Rescue Committee). The aid workers I've met are very proud of this statistic, and do so in a patriotic, "Murica!" Lens the same we view our pride of the 2nd Amendment as a patriotic thing.

Of course whether that is a reliable metric for assimilation or preventing radicalization can be debated, as some others here have mentioned. My opinion is that it generally does, given the correlation of social problems that these other European countries are having...

The body armour you see BritPol wearing is not bullet resistant, it is actually a stab-proof vest. The lads and lasses refer to them as "stab-proofs", as in "I'm just putting my stab-proof on". It is far, far, far, more likely in the UK that you will get attacked by a drunken knife wielding husband at a domestic incident than you will get attacked by an army of AK toting terrorists - even with what is going on at the moment. Each stab-proof is custom ordered for the officer, in my force we got them from a manufacturer in Germany. There is now a sort of over-vest with pockets in a bit like a tactical vest, there is a torch slot, notebook pockets, mounting slot for a monadnock holster and a handcuff holster.

Counter knife techniques are nothing super ninja, I could show you in about 3 minutes, they are designed to stop the knife from flailing around and doing ongoing damage. I will admit that the techniques have changed a tad over the years and I still like the first method I was taught, and over the years used three times to prevent myself being skewered.

As for the Bobby being handcuffed, 8 minutes is a pretty shit hot response time in anyones book.

Regarding the knife thing:

I believe his comment was tongue-in-cheek, as there is a trend of British media deriding American police as incompetent and quick to shoot anyone instead of handling the problem in a more correct manner. Remember my comment about an "agenda" I made when you posted that video of the diplomatic escort group? The "agenda" I was referring to was how the video tried to portray the Brits as so much more refined, adept, practical, and in general superior to the silly Americans with their big flashy unnecessary motorcade. The idea is ridiculous given the British motorcade portrayed in that video was bigger, higher profile and more disruptive than the vast majority of details that my agency runs, and the American motorcade picked to represent in that video just happens to be the POTUS......of which that's the ONLY motorcade in America of that scope.

So, I'm pretty sure that "agenda" is what txpd is referring to....a tongue-in-cheek comment that Americans just shoot everyone, but British police don't need guns because they are better cops and can handle everything without guns.....

......his other point being that they CANNOT handle everything without guns. No doubt 8 minutes from emergency call to threats being eliminated was a stellar job and great display of the expanded CTSFO teams and their capabilities.....but the fact remains if the general police force were armed, it could have been 2 minutes instead of 8. Wit the Texas cartoon convention terrorist attack.

It's clear that the British know how to train high quality cops, and by the decisiveness displayed by CTSFO and the brass-balls displayed by the two unarmed cops it's clear they've got the fucking guts. In light of those two aspects, it seems a no-brainer to either arm the general police force, or at least expand the AFO program.

[Chuteur]

Interestingly, we do a much better job than many European countries. I think the going rate for a refugee getting off the government dole by 3 months is at 87% in America, compared to one of the Scandanavian countries that is around 50% at two years! (Stat given to me by someone at the International Rescue Committee). The aid workers I've met are very proud of this statistic, and do so in a patriotic, "Murica!" Lens the same we view our pride of the 2nd Amendment as a patriotic thing.

Of course whether that is a reliable metric for assimilation or preventing radicalization can be debated, as some others here have mentioned. My opinion is that it generally does, given the correlation of social problems that these other European countries are having...



Regarding the knife thing:

I believe his comment was tongue-in-cheek, as there is a trend of British media deriding American police as incompetent and quick to shoot anyone instead of handling the problem in a more correct manner. Remember my comment about an "agenda" I made when you posted that video of the diplomatic escort group? The "agenda" I was referring to was how the video tried to portray the Brits as so much more refined, adept, practical, and in general superior to the silly Americans with their big flashy unnecessary motorcade. The idea is ridiculous given the British motorcade portrayed in that video was bigger, higher profile and more disruptive than the vast majority of details that my agency runs, and the American motorcade picked to represent in that video just happens to be the POTUS......of which that's the ONLY motorcade in America of that scope.

So, I'm pretty sure that "agenda" is what txpd is referring to....a tongue-in-cheek comment that Americans just shoot everyone, but British police don't need guns because they are better cops and can handle everything without guns.....

......his other point being that they CANNOT handle everything without guns. No doubt 8 minutes from emergency call to threats being eliminated was a stellar job and great display of the expanded CTSFO teams and their capabilities.....but the fact remains if the general police force were armed, it could have been 2 minutes instead of 8. Wit the Texas cartoon convention terrorist attack.

It's clear that the British know how to train high quality cops, and by the decisiveness displayed by CTSFO and the brass-balls displayed by the two unarmed cops it's clear they've got the fucking guts. In light of those two aspects, it seems a no-brainer to either arm the general police force, or at least expand the AFO program.

You seem to read an awful lot into not very much, I bet you are a joy in an interview room.

[Sensei]

I suppose I should have said "I expected more of these things to happen," rather than what I wrote, as it seems to have been construed as saying that it hasn't happened all that much/hasn't been successful. What I was getting at is that, for example, I would have expected bombings (suicide or otherwise) or firearm attacks at malls, large public gatherings, busy pedestrian areas, etc. etc. etc. on a far more frequent basis than they've actually happened here. We've been at war with al-Qaeda specifically and fundamentalist Islamic terrorism generally for over 15 years, and while I certainly don't want such things to occur, I'm genuinely surprised they haven't occurred at a far greater frequency than they have.

When I said "or, at least, haven't been successfully carried out," really what I was getting at is that I don't work for the FBI or anybody else with a domestic counter-terrorism responsibility and I'm not privy to events that may or may not have been foiled.

There have been successful Islamist-inspired attacks in the US on average every 4 months since the Boston bombings. For every successful attack, loacal and federal authorities shutdown 4 or 5 attempts using good'ol fashioned police work like what @blues described in post #75. That is a lot. Perhaps it seems less familiar to you because the stories do not survive long in the progressive news cycles. Here are the successful ones:

Moore, Oklahoma, September 24, 2014. Alton Nolen beheaded a woman, Colleen Huff, at a Vaughan Foods plant and stabbed and injured another person. While Nolen's motives are unclear, he appears to have been another radicalized Muslim who was obsessed with beheadings.

Queens, New York, October 23, 2014. Zale Thompson, another self-radicalized Muslim, injured two police officers with a hatchet before being shot dead by other cops. Thompson reportedly indoctrinated himself with ISIS, al-Qaeda and al-Shabab–a Somali jihadist terror group–websites and was a lone wolf attacker.

Brooklyn, New York, December 20, 2014. Ismaayil Brinsley shot and murdered two police officers execution-style and his Facebook page featured jihadist postings and had ties to a terror-linked mosque.

Garland, Texas, May 3, 2015. Two gunmen shot up the Curtis Culwell Center in Garland, where a Mohammed cartoon contest was taking place, and were killed by a police officer. ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Chattanooga, Tennessee, July 16, 2015. Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez shot and killed four Marines and a sailor at a military base in Chattanooga and was believed to have been inspired by ISIS.

San Bernardino, California, December 14, 2015. Two radical Islamists, Syed Farook and Tashfeen Malik, shot and murdered 14 people and injured 22 others at an office holiday party.

Orlando, Florida, June 12, 2016. Omar Mateen, 29, opened fire at a gay nightclub, killing 49 and injuring 53. The FBI investigated Mateen twice before his rampage, but did not take any substantive action. Officials believe Mateen was self-radicalized but he pledged fealty to ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi before his death. "The real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west," Mateen posted on his Facebook page after committing his heinous act at Pulse nightclub. "I pledge my alliance to (ISIS leader) abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me," he wrote.

St. Cloud, Minnesota, September 17, 2016. Dahir Ahmed Adan, a 20-year-old Somali refugee, began hacking at people with a steak knife at a Minnesota mall, injuring nine people before he was shot dead by off-duty police officer Jason Falconer. The FBI said numerous witnesses heard Adan yelling "Allahu akbar!" and "Islam! Islam!" during the rampage. He also asked potential victims if they were Muslims before inflicting wounds in their heads, necks, and chests. The FBI believe he had recently become self-radicalized.

New York City/New Jersey, September 17, 2016. Ahmad Khan Rahami, a 28-year-old naturalized citizen from Afghanistan, set off multiple bombs in New York and New Jersey. In Chelsea, his bomb resulted in the injury of over 30 people. Rahami wrote in his journal that he was connected to "terrorist leaders," and appears to have been heavily influenced by Sheikh Anwar, Anwar al-Awlaki, Nidal Hassan, and Osama bin Laden.

Columbus, Ohio, November 28, 2016. Abdul Razak Ali Artan, an ISIS-inspired 20-year-old Somali refugee who had been granted permanent legal residence in 2014 after living in Pakistan for 7 years, attempted to run over his fellow Ohio State students on campus. After his car was stopped by a barrier, he got out of the vehicle and began hacking at people with a butcher knife before being shot dead by a campus police officer. He injured 11 people, one critically. ISIS took credit for the attack, describing Artan as their "soldier." Just three minutes before his rampage, Artan posted a warning to America on Facebook that the "lone wolf attacks" will continue until America "give[s] peace to the Muslims." He also praised deceased al-Qaeda cleric Anwar Al-Awlaki as a "hero."

My point is that Islamist attacks are happening all over the US at an alarming rate - big cities and small. No place is safe - all of the soft targets that you mentioned have already been hit using all of the methods that you mentioned. My advice is to prepare yourself at all times.

[Malamute]

Counter knife techniques are nothing super ninja, I could show you in about 3 minutes, they are designed to stop the knife from flailing around and doing ongoing damage. I will admit that the techniques have changed a tad over the years and I still like the first method I was taught, and over the years used three times to prevent myself being skewered...

What can you share about this? Its great when and where one can go armed with a firearm, though its not always legal. I have to spend part time in a state that doesn't allow nonresidents to carry. I'm also basically disabled from injuries, classes to learn to roll around and fight aint realistic for me. What can a common person do to defend against loonies with blades? Find the nearest cleaning closet and get broomsticks or mop handles to defend with? Carry a collapsible baton? Is that legal where I am? A belt with heavy buckle? (my pants would probably fall off if I took my belt off) Jacket around left arm? Some were reported to have fought the knife wielders with chairs or stools. That would be borderline possible to me, (and could put me out of commission for days afterwards if I was even able to do it) A small pepper canister and medium size lockback #112 Buck is about what Id expect to realistically have on hand in such an event. I think an inspired stroll is about my top speed right now, so running isn't part of the equation right now either.

[BigT]

No doubt, that's how we ended up with some Central American gangs.

I also share your doubt about the ability of the average person with a CCW doing much to thwart a terrorist incident. It really wouldn't matter if they were trained to Teir 1 standards though when we insure that there are gun free soft target areas. It's also largely irrelevant in certain types of attacks.

Google the Saint James Church massacre in south Africa

A single ccw dude with a snub fought off a bunch of terrorists armed with AK'S and grenades

And he probably isnt what P-F would likely consider a gun guy

[Hambo]

Big T, my point, which I should have clarified, is that in car or bomb attacks shooting will rarely be an option.