Van hits pedestrians' on London Bridge in 'major incident'

[Chuteur]

Realistically, the majority of people in the US in a similar situation would probably be similarly unarmed and clueless.
Pragmatically, of course, there's always the chance that there's a sheepdog wannabe there just waiting to throw down...
Or, you know, Suzie Homemaker reads the news, has woken up, and was one of the many women I saw shopping at the gunshow today.

And from what I have seen she would minimally shoot herself in the foot, or at worst another innocent person.

[Drang]

Just saw this on Twitter:

[TGS]

And from what I have seen she would minimally shoot herself in the foot, or at worst another innocent person.

That might be your fear, and is the same thing spouted by liberals opposing CCW, but that hasn't realistically been the case.

There are already plenty of instances in the US of minimally trained, armed citizens deterring the start of shooting and stabbing sprees.

[Chuteur]

I'm just spitballing here, but maybe a start would be to pump the brakes on people entering the country from nations where we can't vet their credentials, or from known supporters of terrorism. Or both maybe?

But what the hell do I know.

To get a meaningfull residency visa for the US I had to provide my life history from day 1, prove my life history with documentary evidence, provide a criminal background history for my entire adult life, have a medical, get fingerprinted & photo'ed, provide proof of financial solvency and then attend the US embassy for an interview with a state dept case officer (I think they are actually all CIA guys).

So, it ain't that easy.

[TGS]

To get a meaningfull residency visa for the US I had to provide my life history from day 1, prove my life history with documentary evidence, provide a criminal background history for my entire adult life, have a medical, get fingerprinted & photo'ed, provide proof of financial solvency and then attend the US embassy for an interview with a state dept case officer (I think they are actually all CIA guys).

So, it ain't that easy.

That's for you, not refugees.

The getting process for refugees is to basically take their word for it unless the USG finds something contradicting it...and the threshold for what is considered a contradiction is absurdly high.

And no, they're not all CIA guys

[Chuteur]

That might be your fear, and is the same thing spouted by liberals opposing CCW, but that hasn't realistically been the case.

There are already plenty of instances in the US of minimally trained, armed citizens deterring the start of shooting and stabbing sprees.

A well founded fear. I forget the number of times I have left the line due to Fred rolling up to show Wilma how well he can shoot and pass on his wisdom to her. Scary. The ex-military RO's where I shoot are of a similar opinion, but they are dealing with paying customers so they politely control instead of throwing people off the range. Its a money business and you don not scare off the money.

[TGS]

A well founded fear. I forget the number of times I have left the line due to Fred rolling up to show Wilma how well he can shoot and pass on his wisdom to her. Scary. The ex-military RO's where I shoot are of a similar opinion, but they are dealing with paying customers so they politely control instead of throwing people off the range. Its a money business and you don not scare off the money.

Which is a universally held truth about ranges by pretty much every member of this forum to the point that some of the members here refuse to shoot at public ranges.

That hasn't translated into a norm of civilians shooting themselves and each other instead of the bad guys, however.

ETA: They don't have to be SAS to have a positive effect. Even if it's just Blues with his trusty J-Frame, if you hold them off and allow more innocents to escape you have done your part in the concept of dying well. Wit the NCIS agent at the Navy Yard shooting who had a P239 with no reload. There's lots of criticism towards him, but the fact is that his limited actions which didn't even hit the assailant still allowed more people to escape, and gave just that much more time for responders.

[Chuteur]

That's for you, not refugees.

The getting process for refugees is to basically take their word for it unless the USG finds something contradicting it...and the threshold for what is considered a contradiction is absurdly high.

And no, they're not all CIA guys

Same as everywhere else.

Are'nt they? Well, probably not all, just the one chatting fluently in a non-english language with a former soldier and cop about similar experiences in another NATO member country.

[voodoo_man]

Yes - I 110% agree.

But, ask yourself this: Where do you draw the line between freedom's and a police state.

For those on the inside of the machine applying more controls in their many various forms can look pretty appealing: Checkpoints, random ID checks, looser powers of search and detainment, and of course internment.

However, as soon as you leave the machine and are no longer a component when you are subjected to those same controls it does not look so good.

That is the balancing act most of europe performs.


NOTE: I'm just catching up on all this now as I have been out all day.

I have lived in a literal police state, and believe me when I say the US is as far from that as the UK is from it.

As long as citizen are allowed to do whatever they want, whenever they want, there won't be much of any issues.

The problem here is that the politicians and left group think wants more refugees, more anti English "culture" and more non-assimilated immigrants. That is something we here, in the US, generally do well to overcome, though we still have our issues. In the UK there seems to be a legitimate issue with acceptance of other cultures at the expense of their own. That is unacceptable and that is the root cause.

This isn't a hardware problem, as you can have uniformed LE on every corner with rifles and it'll still happen, like in Israel, like in NY, like in any other city with a major problem with the current left wing ideology which promotes this type of thing.

[Drang]

My laptop just had a nervous breakdown or something, so these links didn't get through...

Anyway, more to it than just a bad driver, after all: London Bridge attack: Terror incident leaves up to seven feared dead after van ploughs into pedestrians 'before five men jump out and start stabbing people'

Police 'gun down three attackers' at pub in Borough Market as SAS hunt one remaining suspect

A GANG of five terrorists wearing stab-proof vests drove a van into pedestrians at 50mph on London Bridge before attacking revellers with hunting knives.

At last six people have died and 20 hurt following the 10:08pm attack. Staff at a packed pub locked the doors as the gang tried to smash their way in. One man was stabbed five times.

A picture taken outside the Wheatsheaf pub in Borough Market shows two of the terrorists lying dead – after being gunned down by cops.

Four explosions – believed to be controlled explosions by police – were heard outside The Sun offices in London Bridge between 1:23am and 1:49am.

'They shouted 'this is for Allah', as they stabbed indiscriminately' - How the London terror attack unfolded