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Thread: Spot Shooting

  1. #1
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    Spot Shooting

    Interesting blog post by Claude Werner regarding "spot shooting" aka "aim small, miss small" . This is something I've always tried to practice.

    The qualification score difference among Claude's students between two similar targets is particularly interesting. Has anyone else noticed these differences ?

    https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress....oting-part-ii/

    Something to think about in training, practice, and actual incidents is to pick an aiming point or “Mark your targets before you fire.” as Colour Sergeant Bourne put it.

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    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    I've found this technique to be very effective for folks with good fundamentals (grip, stance, trigger press) but who have been taught target-focused shooting. When I try to "talk" them into focusing on the front sight, everyone gets frustrated. When I put a 5" shoot-n-c on the high chest and tell them ONLY that shoot-n-c is a "five" for scoring purposes, their groups magically shrink. In many cases, they shrink without much if any speed detriment (times on our qual are VERY generous).

    It's one of the many reasons I DESPISE the TRANSTAR series of targets. Even on the older models, the "Five" ring is too big, and too low on the target's "anatomy." If I were king of the firearms world for a day, I'd switch all qualification targets to photo-realistic targets with anatomically-based scoring models - AND make any shot off silhouette a "fail."

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    Member Peally's Avatar
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    Always a good tactic. Ideally you shouldn't be aiming center mass, you should be aiming at the little "A" or a shirt button or whatever (depending on your target). Find the area you want to hit and pick the tiny center bit to swing the sights to.
    Last edited by Peally; 05-28-2017 at 06:38 PM.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

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    I had Bill Rogers telling us as a class about Ed McGivern and his shooting. It prompted me to get and try to read Ed's book, still not done it, sooooo dry. But the point Bill made was to aim at a small part of the target and not the target as a whole, the same as Ed McGivern when he used to shoot at glass marbles - don't aim at the marble, aim at a point on the marble.

    I find if my targets are 3 inch discs, or 3x5 cards I aim to hit them, whereas if my target is somewhat larger with legs I have to concentrate to not just aim at that as a whole, rather find a point on that target and aim for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psalms144.1 View Post
    I've found this technique to be very effective for folks with good fundamentals (grip, stance, trigger press) but who have been taught target-focused shooting. When I try to "talk" them into focusing on the front sight, everyone gets frustrated. When I put a 5" shoot-n-c on the high chest and tell them ONLY that shoot-n-c is a "five" for scoring purposes, their groups magically shrink. In many cases, they shrink without much if any speed detriment (times on our qual are VERY generous).

    It's one of the many reasons I DESPISE the TRANSTAR series of targets. Even on the older models, the "Five" ring is too big, and too low on the target's "anatomy." If I were king of the firearms world for a day, I'd switch all qualification targets to photo-realistic targets with anatomically-based scoring models - AND make any shot off silhouette a "fail."
    My agency uses a cartoon "thug" target, known internally as the "Tom Ridge" for it's resemblance to the first DHS secretary. We previously used the NRA TQ-15 target with. "TV set" square 4&5 ring high chest but no defined aiming point.

    My Taskforce agency uses a milk bottle target with a head box and 4x6-ish box stlightly above center mass.

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    The real problem here is that folks think that the goal in defensive/combat shooting is to put rounds through the same hole. Wrong. The goal is to stop the threat. That is most usually done by making either the coroner's job or the trauma center doctor's job very hard. That means you put multiple hits into the vitals. The vast majority of handgun fights in the real world are in close ranges and the guy who gets his handgun into action the fastest wins. To do so effectively requires a lot of practice, but you get that Gat on the bad guy's center mass ASAP and work at getting three or four rounds into his chest and he ain't going nowhere.

    Everything else is just gun forum drama and the stuff of myth.

  8. #8
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShooterM9 View Post
    The real problem here is that folks think that the goal in defensive/combat shooting is to put rounds through the same hole. Wrong. The goal is to stop the threat. That is most usually done by making either the coroner's job or the trauma center doctor's job very hard. That means you put multiple hits into the vitals. The vast majority of handgun fights in the real world are in close ranges and the guy who gets his handgun into action the fastest wins. To do so effectively requires a lot of practice, but you get that Gat on the bad guy's center mass ASAP and work at getting three or four rounds into his chest and he ain't going nowhere.

    Everything else is just gun forum drama and the stuff of myth.
    That's pretty much been my focus over the years. Be first. Get 'em on target. I'm not too concerned about putting 'em all in the same hole.

    I've had this argument with at least one agency academy firearms training officer in years past where they were miffed that I didn't take more time to obtain a higher score. I told him I wasn't interested in obtaining the absolute highest score I was capable of shooting. I wanted to be first and put my shots into the vital areas. To each his own.

    I will say, however, that when I train at my neighbor's range that I focus much better and shoot more precisely when I work on small targets...like small reactive dueling trees and hostage targets.
    Last edited by blues; 05-30-2017 at 07:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    That's pretty much been my focus over the years. Be first. Get 'em on target. I'm not too concerned about putting 'em all in the same hole.

    I've had this argument with at least one agency academy firearms training officer in years past where they were miffed that I didn't take more time to obtain a higher score. I told him I wasn't interested in obtaining the absolute highest score I was capable of shooting. I wanted to be first and put my shots into the vital areas. To each his own.

    I will say, however, that when I train at my neighbor's range that I focus much better and shoot more precisely when I work on small targets...like small reactive dueling trees and hostage targets.
    Well said...like you I focus intensely on accuracy, then speed of action. This is a point lost on so many gun forum "experts" I despair of changing hearts and minds on this point, but at the end of the day...it is all about speed and violence of action. Get rounds into the bad guy in a spread that incapacitates him. End of story.

    Interestingly today I heard that the officer who shot the guy in his car who is now on trial shot him seven times. Seven.

    I've watched now hundreds of students working on very close range drills forced to react instantly to a threat, get their firearm out, and shoot the bad guy immediately at bad breath distance.

    I have made it a point to count the shots taken by folks in such a high stress situation (at static targets, in a shoot house, doesn't matter).

    Want to know how many shots about 98% of them take?

    SEVEN.

    I can't explain it, but it is most alway seven shots.
    Last edited by ShooterM9; 05-30-2017 at 08:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    That's pretty much been my focus over the years. Be first. Get 'em on target. I'm not too concerned about putting 'em all in the same hole.

    I've had this argument with at least one agency academy firearms training officer in years past where they were miffed that I didn't take more time to obtain a higher score. I told him I wasn't interested in obtaining the absolute highest score I was capable of shooting. I wanted to be first and put my shots into the vital areas. To each his own.

    I will say, however, that when I train at my neighbor's range that I focus much better and shoot more precisely when I work on small targets...like small reactive dueling trees and hostage targets.
    Coming from the same "pool" you do, there is a difference between choosing to give up some accuracy in favor of speed and the inability to be accurate. IME 99% of those who talk about "spreading the pain" are blowing smoke to cover the fact that they can't shoot.

    I've shot many different LE agency quals, none of them are particularly challenging to max out.

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