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Thread: First IDPA Match & Review

  1. #11
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sterling Archer View Post
    As I said, I already addressed your comments in the article. I'm not going to engage with you when you continually won't read what's already been posted.

    If you want to have a real discussion I'm more than happy to, I don't think that's what you're all about though. So thanks for your feedback and have a nice day.
    I read your post there. You didn't dispute any of the posts I made. You do appear to like to sling passive aggressive slights though, which is interesting.
    I'd love to have a "real discussion" here or there if you refute my actual points.

    So lets step back and do that. Which point is off?
    Last edited by Zincwarrior; 05-30-2017 at 04:39 PM.

  2. #12
    So what place did you come in, out of how many shooters?

  3. #13
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    Nice work jumping in man!

    As far as gun games having much relevance in real world use of handguns...well someone could write a book about that. They definitely help you with being able to shoot and manipulate your gun efficiently. How much of that is involved in a defensive shooting is not a question I can personally answer, but it's one less thing for you to have to worry about. All the other things involved in fighting...well that's probably not something you can easily develop in a weekly IDPA match, but it seems like you've trained with some good defensive shooters.

    Plus, a healthy dose of competitiveness will drive practice, which will improve skill. Better to be the guy who can clock a one second draw to an A-zone (or down zero if you prefer) from concealment than the guy who keeps his pistol in a sock drawer and shoots it once yearly.

    I highly suggest USPSA...it's fun. In spite of it being hard work to get good, shooting guns is still pretty damn fun. That said, you'll get soul crushing junk punched by more than a few stages/classifiers/shooters.

  4. #14
    Member Sterling Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    So lets step back and do that. Which point is off?
    Alright, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. My responses are below in bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zincwarrior View Post
    Nearly every point you made is easily refuted with the simple admonition that ITS A GAME. Nothing I posted is incorrect.
    As I said in the article " First and foremost it’s a game, in most meaningful defensive facets, just like USPSA. Is that a bad thing though? Not necessarily. If you just want a game to play and you prefer the IDPA format over others then rock on. In any competition shooting, if you want to keep it real life relevant, then make sure you don’t confuse the two."

    To restate:
    *crowding cover is something new shooters do. you are not forced to do that.
    With the fault lines and target placement there is no other way to get the required angles/shots unless you crowd and bend around. This wasn't just in my match, as I said in the article, I watch a lot of match videos.

    *leaning out is a result of the fault lines which are new and in place to take human variability out of the game (aka cover calls).
    I realize that and for a game it's fine. For real life I don't believe it is.

    *you complained about getting a call for not wearing cover. You must have missed where everyone else was wearing cover. Its a simple, basic rule and SOs will typically remind you if you come up to the stage without it. You argued it was Texas, well I compete (badly) in Central Texas. And?
    I didn't complain, even when I got the call. I asked for clarification and then moved on. A lot of active IDPA shooters dislike the rules, it's probably one of the most talked about subjects in IDPA. It was part of the experience I was writing about and therefore relevant to the article.

    *you complained about ten round counts, when again, its a game and the rule is designed to take variability out of it (same as in production in USPSA).
    Once again, I didn't complain. You just can't seem to get past trying to assign me some discontent that isn't there. I pointed out one aspect of the game and even explained why it was like that. No where did I say it was bad.

    *you complained about moving while shooting. Other games have no movement whatsoever (steel challenge/bullseye). It just depends on the game. IDPA / USPSA / three gun have movement.
    Again with the complaining... I illustrated why it's not real life relevant and provided a quote by Paul Howe supporting that assertion. If you believe you know better than him then take it up with him. I on the other hand will take his instruction and real life experience to heart.

    The old IDPA/USPSA WILL GET YOU KILLED!!! is an old trope and frankly its tiring. Its a game that is fun and helps you practice some of the basics. Its not designed for anything else. You wouldn't mistake Moto cross as evasion training.
    As my article already stated, yes it's a game. Did you really not fully read the article before posting your retort? There are things like crowding cover, which IDPA matches seem to encourage, that can get you killed. As evidenced by the video of the fallen officer. IDPA markets itself as being more real life relevant than USPSA for example. My article was focused on that myth and how IDPA may or may not translate to real life.
    As I said in my article "If you’re a shooter looking to advance your skills through competition, make sure you establish your priorities going in and don’t confuse the two. Do you want to play the game or practice for real life?"
    Last edited by Sterling Archer; 05-31-2017 at 03:25 PM.

  5. #15
    Member Sterling Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    So what place did you come in, out of how many shooters?
    I don't know, I never looked. I went in wanting to focus on my accuracy and did just that. Several shooters complimented me on it after nearly cleaning several stages. I got to experience something new, meet a fellow forum member, and shoot. All my goals were met.

    I typically don't check my match scores unless someone points it out to me. When I shoot steel matches for example I track how many overall rounds fired verse how many would be required to clean the match. I'm more interested in tracking my accuracy than how fast I shot compared to others. Once I stopped focusing on speed and stayed focused on accuracy I started winning.

  6. #16
    Member Sterling Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45dotACP View Post
    Nice work jumping in man!

    As far as gun games having much relevance in real world use of handguns...well someone could write a book about that. They definitely help you with being able to shoot and manipulate your gun efficiently. How much of that is involved in a defensive shooting is not a question I can personally answer, but it's one less thing for you to have to worry about. All the other things involved in fighting...well that's probably not something you can easily develop in a weekly IDPA match, but it seems like you've trained with some good defensive shooters.

    Plus, a healthy dose of competitiveness will drive practice, which will improve skill. Better to be the guy who can clock a one second draw to an A-zone (or down zero if you prefer) from concealment than the guy who keeps his pistol in a sock drawer and shoots it once yearly.

    I highly suggest USPSA...it's fun. In spite of it being hard work to get good, shooting guns is still pretty damn fun. That said, you'll get soul crushing junk punched by more than a few stages/classifiers/shooters.
    Thanks! I've been looking at USPSA matches in my area. June offerings are pretty sparse though so it may not be until July, the main club seems to be on vacation.

    I'm a big believer in competition providing real world benefits. I've often quoted a Massad Ayoob article: "At the first Bianchi Cup in 1979, I shot on the same squad as Jim Cirillo. We were walking together from one stage of the event to another when Jim told me he had never felt this much stress in any of his gunfights. I asked him why. He replied that there weren’t all these people watching, and there wasn’t all this time to build up to it."

    http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/...ght-survival-1

    On another forum someone posted a video by Rob Leatham on the subject, I thought it made some good points.

    Last edited by Sterling Archer; 05-31-2017 at 03:50 PM.

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Sterling Archer View Post
    I don't know, I never looked. I went in wanting to focus on my accuracy and did just that. Several shooters complimented me on it after nearly cleaning several stages. I got to experience something new, meet a fellow forum member, and shoot. All my goals were met.

    I typically don't check my match scores unless someone points it out to me. When I shoot steel matches for example I track how many overall rounds fired verse how many would be required to clean the match. I'm more interested in tracking my accuracy than how fast I shot compared to others. Once I stopped focusing on speed and stayed focused on accuracy I started winning.
    You should be able to check online. To be honest, your blog post and posts here kinda sound like sour grapes because you might not have done as well as you thought you should have.

  8. #18
    Member Peally's Avatar
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    I find it odd that these threads always turn to subtle shit flinging. I can't stand IDPA for multiple well documented reasons, but I don't go out of my way to poo on IDPA threads (at least I try most of the time). Everyone go and dry fire a little more.
    Last edited by Peally; 05-31-2017 at 06:28 PM.
    Semper Gumby, Always Flexible

  9. #19
    Member Sterling Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HopetonBrown View Post
    To be honest, your blog post and posts here kinda sound like sour grapes because you might not have done as well as you thought you should have.
    You're going to read into it what you will based on your own perception. Perhaps you should read some other content from my training journal to gain a new perspective. I am brutally honest in my self review. If I tank a match I own up to it and don't put off blame, I've posted videos of horrible outings I've had. I'm not sure where you would even get the idea as I never once talked about my shooting or score. My only reference was a minor paragraph on the procedural call. Had I complained about my score or calls I considered bad then you would have a case. Currently you're basing your theory on a, feeling?

    Everything I stated is factual. I didn't use generic statements like "Shooting IDPA will get you killed!" with no further content. Instead I addressed specific actions and the consequences of them, with clear and relevant supporting material. If you don't like the light it puts on IDPA then that's your right.

    I enjoyed shooting my first match and asked a local club if they would let me shoot my way or consider it a hinderance to their match. They were very nice and accommodating, saying it would be fine and just notify the RO/SO so he doesn't verbally call me on it during the stage. I'm looking forward to my next match.
    Last edited by Sterling Archer; 05-31-2017 at 07:53 PM.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sterling Archer View Post
    You're going to read into it what you will based on your own perception. Perhaps you should read some other content from my training journal to gain a new perspective. I am brutally honest in my self review. If I tank a match I own up to it and don't put off blame, I've posted videos of horrible outings I've had. I'm not sure where you would even get the idea as I never once talked about my shooting or score. My only reference was a minor paragraph on the procedural call. Had I complained about my score or calls I considered bad then you would have a case. Currently you're basing your theory on a, feeling?

    Everything I stated is factual. I didn't use generic statements like "Shooting IDPA will get you killed!" with no further content. Instead I addressed specific actions and the consequences of them, with clear and relevant supporting material. If you don't like the light it puts on IDPA then that's your right.

    I enjoyed shooting my first match and asked a local club if they would let me shoot my way or consider it a hinderance to their match. They were very nice and accommodating, saying it would be fine and just notify the RO/SO so he doesn't verbally call me on it during the stage. I'm looking forward to my next match.
    To be fair, everyone thinks they're brutally honest in their self critiques.

    IDPA is just a game. Games have rules. Follow the rules, play the game, have fun. IDPA/USPSA/3 gun/ICORE/SASS are all gun games. Participation helps the shooter work under time pressure.

    There's always a guy at a match who will tell you he's "just there to have fun". If you run that through your decoder ring that translates into "I'm not doing very well, but I don't care, because I'm doing this for a different reason than you". Evidently he thinks everyone else is there because of some sort of employer mandated program.

    "I'm just here to have fun" or "I'm going to shoot it tactically" is an out to explain why they did poorly, in my experience.

    So instead of trying to make something into something it's not, why not just play by the rules and enjoy the sport? You can do the tactical in your next FoF class, or join a local airsoft club.

    I've got a buddy who is a Limited GM. He knows that I'm a recovering tactard. He said that his complaint about "tactical" shooters is that they take everything so seriously all the time. I agree.

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