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Thread: British Police loads

  1. #11
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuteur View Post
    Whats an anti terror unit?

    In London there is SO19/CO19 and in the last year CTSFO has popped up - then there is the usual mish mash of armed response vehicle teams.
    Bringing back memories...A few of my former colleagues from SO7 went over to the anti-terror group within the next year. I don't recall if it was SO19 or not back then. (Oh, and I forgot to return this to the desk...)

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    Last edited by blues; 05-25-2017 at 06:14 PM.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuteur View Post

    As a point of interest: During my time it used to be that on issue from the armory at the start of shift all case headstamps were checked and they were checked on hand in at the end of shift too. Just to make sure there had been no unauthorised activity and substitution of rounds.
    So you were issued loose rounds and loaded your mags and then unloaded them at turn in at the end of shift? Thanks, it's always interesting to see how other coppers do things.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    Bringing back memories...A few of my former colleagues from SO7 went over to the anti-terror group within the next year. I don't recall if it was SO19 or not back then. (Oh, and I forgot to return this to the desk...)

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    You Sir are a bad man, very bad.........think of all that extra admin and paperwork you gave some poor, maligned, overpaid, underworked, desk-jockey.

  4. #14
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuteur View Post
    You Sir are a bad man, very bad.........think of all that extra admin and paperwork you gave some poor, maligned, overpaid, underworked, desk-jockey.
    We try.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

    Read: Harrison Bergeron

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    So you were issued loose rounds and loaded your mags and then unloaded them at turn in at the end of shift? Thanks, it's always interesting to see how other coppers do things.
    In a bullet tray thingy, one of those that comes in the boxes of 50 rds - some arms storemen were enterprising and made them up out of blocks of wood and a bench drill, all neatly painted and numbered. The tray was handed over with the requisite number of rds, all with the same markings, the arms storeman used to slide them over, you check the markings and the qty., check the butt number of the weapon, then you both sign the sheet for the ammo and the weapon - the same happens in reverse on hand in at the end of shift. We did the same in the military, and they probably still do, outside combat areas - same issue procedure for any armed escorts, guard duties, patrols, etc.

    That was my Force, different Police Forces have different methods, but they are all very strict in their controls of firearms and ammo. Just because someone hands you a 30 round mag and tells you it is full doesn't mean it is, same as someone handing over a firearm telling you it is unloaded......trust no one.

    Please appreciate that ammo as well as firearms are controlled in euro-land. It is a criminal offence in the UK to have ammo without legal authority, and in the military you are required to declare, on legal oath, that you have no ammo after the hand in procedure - courtmartial offence.
    Last edited by Chuteur; 05-25-2017 at 08:15 PM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuteur View Post
    In a bullet tray thingy, one of those that comes in the boxes of 50 rds - some arms storemen were enterprising and made them up out of blocks of wood and a bench drill, all neatly painted and numbered. The tray was handed over with the requisite number of rds, all with the same markings, the arms storeman used to slide them over, you check the markings and the qty., check the butt number of the weapon, then you both sign the sheet for the ammo and the weapon - the same happens in reverse on hand in at the end of shift. We did the same in the military, and they probably still do, outside combat areas - same issue procedure for any armed escorts, guard duties, patrols, etc.

    That was my Force, different Police Forces have different methods, but they are all very strict in their controls of firearms and ammo. Just because someone hands you a 30 round mag and tells you it is full doesn't mean it is, same as someone handing over a firearm telling you it is unloaded......trust no one.

    Please appreciate that ammo as well as firearms are controlled in euro-land. It is a criminal offence in the UK to have ammo without legal authority, and in the military you are required to declare, on legal oath, that you have no ammo after the hand in procedure - courtmartial offence.
    Our Army used to be similar. We were handed five .45 rounds when we were issued a pistol (no butt numbers on them; we went by serial numbers) for various guard function, and we needed to hand in those same .45 rounds immediately afterward. On firing ranges we had to account for all ammo expended, and taking ammo was a court martial offense.

    However, it happened. For example, during Jimmy Carter's reign as our commander in chief, we were very short soldiers and the Army was taken whomever it could get. That situation ultimately led to a war between two drug gangs in one of our brigades, which led to a need to acquire weapons and ammo. So some weapons went missing (which led heads to roll but no return of the weapons), and a hand grenade was used in the shower room of an infantry battalion, crippling one of the (ahem "alleged") major drug players. The hand grenade came from a recent training exercise in which someone unwisely certified that all grenades had been used. Again heads rolled--but again the wrong heads.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
    Our Army used to be similar. We were handed five .45 rounds when we were issued a pistol (no butt numbers on them; we went by serial numbers) for various guard function, and we needed to hand in those same .45 rounds immediately afterward. On firing ranges we had to account for all ammo expended, and taking ammo was a court martial offense.

    However, it happened. For example, during Jimmy Carter's reign as our commander in chief, we were very short soldiers and the Army was taken whomever it could get. That situation ultimately led to a war between two drug gangs in one of our brigades, which led to a need to acquire weapons and ammo. So some weapons went missing (which led heads to roll but no return of the weapons), and a hand grenade was used in the shower room of an infantry battalion, crippling one of the (ahem "alleged") major drug players. The hand grenade came from a recent training exercise in which someone unwisely certified that all grenades had been used. Again heads rolled--but again the wrong heads.
    No gangs in the BritMil, its not a UK thing.

    With the police if you signed out 30 rounds with a Federal headstamp you just signed in 30 with a Federal headstamp and that was it, walk away go home.

    With the military you declare: "I have no live rounds, empty cases, pyrotechnics or explosive devices in my possession. Sir". Followed by the statement from a senior NCO/Officer: "You are reminded that it is a court martial offence to remove any blah, blah, blah, without authority. If you later do find you have anything hand it in to your NCO/officer"? They had to drain one of the inground firefighting water storage ponds next to the accomodation blocks one time and found enough ammo and pyro to start a small war.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuteur View Post
    No gangs in the BritMil, its not a UK thing.

    Ah, but as your governing elites strive to make the UK more multi-cultural you might find that it is a diversity-thing. Even without the gangs, the US Army had plenty of ponds (and other convenient places) like yours. After all, what do you do--if you aren't in a gang--when you discover there are extra hand grenades and machine gun belts hanging around after you declared you checked and turned them all in? Ponds, swamps and hidden places on artillery "impact zones" have been serving that purpose for generations.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeep View Post
    Ah, but as your governing elites strive to make the UK more multi-cultural you might find that it is a diversity-thing. Even without the gangs, the US Army had plenty of ponds (and other convenient places) like yours. After all, what do you do--if you aren't in a gang--when you discover there are extra hand grenades and machine gun belts hanging around after you declared you checked and turned them all in? Ponds, swamps and hidden places on artillery "impact zones" have been serving that purpose for generations.
    Ok, I say no gangs, but I lie. There are gangs, yes, but not in the way you see them in the US with the same lifestyle, neighborhood mentality and gangbanger attitude hung onto them. I had a CWO2 friend in CID and he told me what goes on with some of the gangs in the military, in the UK I have only ever known one bloke sell anything from official stockpiles and he ended up doing 3 years in pokey.

    The UK has gangs more in the way of criminal organisations: Chinese triads have been around for year; since the Balkan conflict some of the "refugee's" taken in have taken their para-military affiliations and turned to criminal activities; Turkish gangs have been around for years; back in the 50's, 60's and 70's it was Maltese and Cypriot gangs; I wonder about some of the Somali and Ethiopians taken in as refugee's. Then you throw the Russians in there as they are investing heavily in London and we know they are not choirboys.

    The thing is these organisations tend to keep their activities very quiet and within their own communities so it is hard to get a handle on them. Add to that the fact that many UK coppers think organised crime is fiction only seen on TV and in the movies - so you spend time convincing them it is a real problem.
    Last edited by Chuteur; 05-26-2017 at 12:22 PM.

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