Self Defense: The process of shooting your target after the decision to fire is made

[BehindBlueI's]

Yes. Do you understand my question put to you?

Dropping a gun may or may not indicate that an imminent threat has ceased. You don't have to have a gun to be an imminent threat.

The conversation is about how you perceive and react to change when it's not possible to process all input from your environment, though, so I'm not sure the point of your question.

[QED]

Dropping a gun may or may not indicate that an imminent threat has ceased. You don't have to have a gun to be an imminent threat.

The conversation is about how you perceive and react to change when it's not possible to process all input from your environment, though, so I'm not sure the point of your question.

Let me try to clarify the relevancy of my question. The process of shooting "the target" (presumably a threatening person with a gun) logically should include the issue of when to stop shooting -- which presumably should be based on condition of imminent threat no longer existing. Now, if one shouldn't "get hung up" on seeing the gun drop, as you stated, would you continue shooting "the target," and for how long/how many shots after the gun was dropped -- that you didn't see being dropped because you apparently don't get "hung up" on seeing it drop?

[BehindBlueI's]

Let me try to clarify the relevancy of my question. The process of shooting "the target" (presumably a threatening person with a gun) logically should include the issue of when to stop shooting -- which presumably should be based on condition of imminent threat no longer existing. Now, if one shouldn't "get hung up" on seeing the gun drop, as you stated, would you continue shooting "the target," and for how long/how many shots after the gun was dropped -- that you didn't see being dropped because you apparently don't get "hung up" on seeing it drop?

See a handgun fall? Probably not. That's too fine a level of detail for you subconscious. Plus your brain "fills in the gaps" and what you think you see may not be accurate (if you're really expecting a gun, a cell phone looks more like a gun than if you aren't expecting a gun, etc.) Seeing a weapon fall is a pretty modern way to tell your opponent is out of the fight and your subconscious isn't looking for that. No, your subconscious is much more concerned with your opponent folding in on himself, spinning to flee, big movements like limbs collapsing or the body falling, etc. Things that were relevant in feet/fist/tooth combat. Then it alerts you conscious to check out that development, and then you might notice the gun has dropped. What you'll probably notice, though, is that the opponent is no longer presenting a threat.

[QED]

So if you see "the target" which is several yards away with a gun and you recognize an imminent threat to you -- you don't get "hung up" on what happens to the gun as you initiate firing and maintain firing until "the target" collapses/flatlines?

[blues]

So if you see "the target" which is several yards away with a gun and you recognize an imminent threat to you -- you don't get "hung up" on what happens to the gun as you initiate firing and maintain firing until "the target" collapses/flatlines?

Why do you feel the need to be argumentative? This isn't a courtroom drama or a gotcha session. The info is in the posts if you want to see it.

BBI is not only a good friend on the forum but someone who takes time to compile much useful data for our digestion.

Your nagging, on the other hand, is giving me indigestion. You've gone beyond asking valid questions to picking scabs.

[Jay Cunningham]

QED, for a Jul 2017 join guy you are raising some eyebrows.

I'll do the "read more, post less" advice - until you get more settled into the forum.

I typically bristle when mods make that statement, but it's occasionally on the nose.

[QED]

Why do you feel the need to be argumentative? This isn't a courtroom drama or a gotcha session. The info is in the posts if you want to see it.

BBI is not only a good friend on the forum but someone who takes time to compile much useful data for our digestion.

Your nagging, on the other hand, is giving me indigestion. You've gone beyond asking valid questions to picking scabs.

Nagging? Others in this thread have expressed their view that seeing the gun drop matters, so what's wrong by trying to find out why this member has the view that dropping the gun is not something one should "get hung up" on -- when deciding to stop shooting? He, of course, need not answer the question if he doesn't want to.

[BehindBlueI's]

So if you see "the target" which is several yards away with a gun and you recognize an imminent threat to you -- you don't get "hung up" on what happens to the gun as you initiate firing and maintain firing until "the target" collapses/flatlines?

Which is why I asked if you understood what was under discussion. You don't. That's ok.

Dropping the gun is ONE component of threat assessment, and a component that may or may not start your decision making process. You may note other cues first. How long, and how, you perceive and react to various cues it is what's under discussion. You're stripping my quote of any context. I responded to:


Post: Does that mean I can train to hard focus on the front sight and see the gun drop?
My response: I'll ask again, why are you so hung up on "seeing the gun drop"? Are you sure you're asking the right question? Would the better question not be "how can I see the person is no longer a threat?"

You've taken it as getting hung up on it during the fight. I was saying don't get hung up on it in this conversation. The right question isn't "how do I see a gun drop" but instead "how can I recognize the threat is over".

Then we talk about perception, the limits of it, etc. If you still have questions, re-read the thread and then feel free to ask.

[QED]

QED, for a Jul 2017 join guy you are raising some eyebrows.

I'll do the "read more, post less" advice - until you get more settled into the forum.

I typically bristle when mods make that statement, but it's occasionally on the nose.

I get it, loud and clear. Need not worry.

[Clusterfrack]

Wow, great thread. Thanks SMEs for your insights. I'll summarize some of my experiences:

Home invasion burglary, no shots fired: no tunnel vision

Shot at with AKs at night by drunk soldiers in a foreign country: no tunnel vision

Knife attack: tunnel vision and temporal compression

Near-fatal SCUBA accident: tunnel vision and temporal compression.

Dog attack: tunnel vision and temporal compression

Cougar on the trail right in front of me: no tunnel vision

Sim scenarios: varies.

USPSA matches: some tunnel vision and major temporal compression.

So, for me sometimes I experince tunnel vision, and it's not always correlated with the actual danger.