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Thread: Grip Vs Finger Placement

  1. #1
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    Grip Vs Finger Placement

    I added this video to another thread recently but decided to bring it out into it's own thread. Not that it is a great video but from some of the reading I've been doing here I'm wrestling with this. I have big ass hands (XXL glove). I shoot a G19. Unless I am missing something I cannot do the things with my hands that apparently everyone else can and it make no sense to me. Am I reading too much into "more trigger finger" and "don't let you finger touch the trigger guard"? My hands are apparently freakishly stiff because they won't bend like others do. This shit is keeping me awake a night!
    SCD


  2. #2
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    Trying to conform your grip to "universally accepted" best practices is like trying to force people to shoot with both eyes open. It works for a lot of people, but not all. People are different and their body's will only allow them to do what they can do.

    I have a large hands with long fingers and as a result, I have a hard time getting support hand contact on the left rear grip panel. My fingers are so long that my right hand fingers wrap most of the left grip panel. To grip the gun the "right" way feels like it forces my hands wide, so I try to get more contact on the gun at the top of the rear grip panel by rotating my support hand forward and wrapping my left index finger high under the trigger guard.

    You gotta do what works with your body type. As long as you can control recoil and move the trigger without disturbing the sights, use what works.
    "Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
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  3. #3
    After seeing several different high level shooters and shooters of various abilities shoot using different grips and different amounts of trigger finger or angle and placement I have come to find that there is no one true anything when it comes to shooting. There are some general guidelines that work for many people but when you introduce a person with larger or smaller hands,fingers that are longer or thicker you may have to deviate from "the normal" or "best". Some examples are the Pat Mak video and advice to use more finger on the trigger. This is the opposite of what Robert Vogel or Jerry Barnhardt use. Grip is the same thing with many recommending and using support hand finger pressed against strong hand fingers high against the trigger guard. Again Vogel moves his fingers of his support hand further forward and not against the strong hand fingers. Barnhardt used his support index finger on the front of the trigger guard. It is often suggested to have the heals of the hand pressed together. Vogel doesn't use this grip but other high level shooters do. It may sound like a cop out that it depends or maybe it really does "just depend" I'm going with it just depends and experiment starting with good basics and adjust from there. It always means high grip on the backstrap, getting the gun fairly lined up with the forearm, high grip with the fingers toward the trigger guard and good contact with both hands.

    Find any person shooting one way and there is another using a different grip or trigger finger placement and also shooting well.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clobbersaurus View Post
    Trying to conform your grip to "universally accepted" best practices is like trying to force people to shoot with both eyes open. It works for a lot of people, but not all. People are different and their body's will only allow them to do what they can do.

    I have a large hands with long fingers and as a result, I have a hard time getting support hand contact on the left rear grip panel. My fingers are so long that my right hand fingers wrap most of the left grip panel. To grip the gun the "right" way feels like it forces my hands wide, so I try to get more contact on the gun at the top of the rear grip panel by rotating my support hand forward and wrapping my left index finger high under the trigger guard.

    You gotta do what works with your body type. As long as you can control recoil and move the trigger without disturbing the sights, use what works.
    Quote Originally Posted by octagon View Post
    After seeing several different high level shooters and shooters of various abilities shoot using different grips and different amounts of trigger finger or angle and placement I have come to find that there is no one true anything when it comes to shooting. There are some general guidelines that work for many people but when you introduce a person with larger or smaller hands,fingers that are longer or thicker you may have to deviate from "the normal" or "best". Some examples are the Pat Mak video and advice to use more finger on the trigger. This is the opposite of what Robert Vogel or Jerry Barnhardt use. Grip is the same thing with many recommending and using support hand finger pressed against strong hand fingers high against the trigger guard. Again Vogel moves his fingers of his support hand further forward and not against the strong hand fingers. Barnhardt used his support index finger on the front of the trigger guard. It is often suggested to have the heals of the hand pressed together. Vogel doesn't use this grip but other high level shooters do. It may sound like a cop out that it depends or maybe it really does "just depend" I'm going with it just depends and experiment starting with good basics and adjust from there. It always means high grip on the backstrap, getting the gun fairly lined up with the forearm, high grip with the fingers toward the trigger guard and good contact with both hands.

    Find any person shooting one way and there is another using a different grip or trigger finger placement and also shooting well.
    All true. I guess I'm just trying to fix an issue using tried and true methods. Obviously as you seen in the video they won't work for me so I guess I'll figure out what will work for ME.
    SCD

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    In order to help someone become a good shooter, one needs to first be a good troubleshooter.

    Troubleshooting requires both "knowledge of the system" and the understanding that troubleshooting itself has a methodology.

    Memorizing a bunch of things and reciting them randomly isn't particularly helpful.

    But understanding just the right amount of physiology, physics, ballistics, kinesthetics, and human psychology - along with a systematic approach to training - will allow one to improve another's shooting performance markedly, in a relatively short timeframe.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    In order to help someone become a good shooter, one needs to first be a good troubleshooter.

    Troubleshooting requires both "knowledge of the system" and the understanding that troubleshooting itself has a methodology.

    Memorizing a bunch of things and reciting them randomly isn't particularly helpful.

    But understanding just the right amount of physiology, physics, ballistics, kinesthetics, and human psychology - along with a systematic approach to training - will allow one to improve another's shooting performance markedly, in a relatively short timeframe.
    Know why you are doing what you are doing. Don't just randomly try something without giving it some thought first. If it works for you be ready to reproduce the results by understanding what you did.

    Someone who is struggling with grip may have additional issues. You can't balance a system with multiple processes out of whack. Tweaks may need to me made to more than just one area. Do not discount anything you are doing when shooting. Stable platform, proper weight distribution, are you square to the target, have you determined your natural point of aim, proper focus and understanding of how to read the sights, ability to break a shot without moving the gun, are you consuming as much as possible of the gun in order to best hang on to it, are you gripping it tight enough, is your grip pressure consistent, do you have the correct follow through, correct finger placement, press straight back, finish flat, did you get a second sight picture..... You can break it down further. Those are just a few thought that quickly come to mind.

  7. #7
    I recently read in Brian Enos book that he uses different amounts of finger for different difficulties of shots.

    Best my amateur self can tell, there's no singular correct way to do anythig in regards to the mechanics of shooting :/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "Shooting is 90% mental. The rest is in your head." -Nils

  8. #8
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    Are you having problems with accuracy, etc or is it just your grip doesn't look like others?

    If you can pull the trigger to the rear without disturbing the sights and your rounds are accurately impacting the target as a result, is your grip a problem that needs attention?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rd62 View Post
    Are you having problems with accuracy, etc or is it just your grip doesn't look like others?

    If you can pull the trigger to the rear without disturbing the sights and your rounds are accurately impacting the target as a result, is your grip a problem that needs attention?
    I am NOT being a smart ass so please don't take it wrong when I say that I don't give 2 shits whether my grip looks like others or not. I am trying to correct an issue that has been beat to death on this and every other forum on the net. Right hand shooter, shooting left with a Glock. I have read everything I can get my hands on and watched hours of YT vids on the subject. I have not tried private lessons with a good diagnostic shooter/instructor and I'm looking for one within a reasonable distance from me now. I am so tempted to adjust my dot and call it a day. The only reason I haven't done so already it that I want to eliminate ME from the equation before I assume it's the hardware.
    SCD

  10. #10
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    None taken. I just missed what the specific issue was you were trying to correct with your grip.

    I struggled a bit shooting left being right handed.

    I recently made and adjustment in not how my grip looks or how much finger I'm using on the trigger, but with the balance of my grip pressure and have seen some positive results. On the recommendation of another post here, I've reduced the amount of grip pressure I'm exerting with my strong hand and consciously increased the amount exerted with my off-side (left) and have seen not only a more centered point of impact but also an increase in my ability to work the trigger at speed resulting in lower splits.
    Last edited by rd62; 05-21-2017 at 05:48 PM.

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