A second strike question - ever happen?

[GJM]

I've seen dedicated revolver guys do it during a match (and I realize the next press is a different cartridge - I mean they cycled all the way around to the one that didn't fire). But with a semi I can't think of any examples I've witnessed. I consider "second strike" capability as a gimmick. Every ninja magazine review of a DAO or DA/SA gun I can recall touted it and I always laughed at the author.

I can see where a shooter in a match might try it. And perhaps people exist who can effectively differentiate between games and street... I'm not that good. I would view that as a scar that could screw up my training. But that's why I only shoot OEM Glock triggers and shoot 99% of matches from concealment. Besides duty/defensive ammo is supposed to have reliable ignition so if I have a click on the street I want the next cartridge in line immediately.

In terms of non-game considerations, to me it is purely a risk/reward deal. A second strike is about .25 second and a TRB is about 2.5 seconds (that is a guess, and it could vary by person). If you have 2.5 seconds, then a TRB is a better deal. If you do not, then a .25 option with some probability of success might be preferable?

[El Cid]

In terms of non-game considerations, to me it is purely a risk/reward deal. A second strike is about .25 second and a TRB is about 2.5 seconds (that is a guess, and it could vary by person). If you have 2.5 seconds, then a TRB is a better deal. If you do not, then a .25 option with some probability of success might be preferable?

All else being equal I agree, it's faster. But how long does it take to realize which remedy to use? While I'm sure the answer varies widely, I'm not comfortable trying to train for both. I'm sure there are shooters who can make that decision under extreme stress but I don't have the time or resources to get there. I also find it telling that few if any seem to train to use the second strike (as HCM mentioned). If a shooter can get to that level of performance, that's great. I'd love to hear from any of our SME's who have seen it used or not used. I can't recall D4 ever mentioning it and his old unit had a sidearm that had the capability.

[StraitR]

I'm sure the double strike capability has saved somebodies bacon before, but I'd be surprised if it was ever done intentionally as an on-the-fly conscience variation from an otherwise trained TRB response to click. I can certainly see it occurring as a result of stress where we see trained and untrained individuals pulling the trigger as quickly as possible until the gun stops going bang.

[critter]

I didn't have many misfires when I shot DA/SA regularly, but I can't recall a single time where a second strike actually worked for me.

[pastaslinger]

Don't have a "real world" example but during a USPSA match I had this happen. Backstory is that switching back to a Beretta results in my thumbs being too high which shreds my stronghand thumb on return to battery. Well this time I had actually caused the slide to not cycle. When there was no bang I pulled the trigger in DA twice thinking it was a light strike but quickly realized some other mischief was afoot so I racked it and went back to shooting.

Now this made little difference in how I did overall in the day given that I was shooting like crap and got like 3 procedurals from 1 shot taken in the wrong string for some stupid classifier but it did cost me maybe 1-2 seconds. This really curbed my enthusiasm regarding double strike capability. If you have a failure to fire and aren't using crap ammo or too light a mainspring then the problem won't get fixed by double strike. If the slide was out of battery or the hammer spring is too light then you have a light strike or no strike- how many times are you going to try setting that round off? Recall that if it was a light strike that primer may be deformed with a divot where the firing pin hit and will make it so that future, clean primer hits that much harder.

[GJM]

I shoot a bunch of PMC 115, which is excellent practice ammo, except that the primers are hard. Also had a batch of primers working thru my reloads in the last year, that had some ignition issues. With these it is about 50/50 as to whether a second hits lights it off.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I don't have any real world examples, but I have long thought that second strike would mainly be an advantage in a grappling/shooting situation where you might not be able to use both hands and attempting a clearance drill on a belt might increase the odds of a weapon takeaway. In such an edge case the ability to whack the primer multiple times might be a huge advantage, but it's such an outlier I wouldn't factor it into equipment selection.

[GJM]

I don't have any real world examples, but I have long thought that second strike would mainly be an advantage in a grappling/shooting situation where you might not be able to use both hands and attempting a clearance drill on a belt might increase the odds of a weapon takeaway. In such an edge case the ability to whack the primer multiple times might be a huge advantage, but it's such an outlier I wouldn't factor it into equipment selection.

How about in the case of a grizzly bear charging inside 15 yards -- would you attempt a TRB, knowing the bear will surely be on you, or would you try the second strike on the boutique loaded, .45 Super cartridge in your USP LEM?

[pastaslinger]

How about in the case of a grizzly bear charging inside 15 yards -- would you attempt a TRB, knowing the bear will surely be on you, or would you try the second strike on the boutique loaded, .45 Super cartridge in your USP LEM?

Will those extra strikes lead to extra rounds fired though? I doubt it, because the malfunction probably isn't light strikes

[GuanoLoco]

I've been though this in competition practice (not so much in match as I use Federals for matches, but it has happened).

Root cause was ultimately a combination of hard Fiocchi small pistol primers, experimenting with light springs, and not realizing that Fiocchi's need to be seated to around 0.005-0.009" for reliable ignition.

What I found was that I could eventually train myself to automatically and reflixively second strike on a primer light strike, but that it took practice and a second strike wasted time in the event that the malfunction was not a light strike, or that the primer would night light regardless for any number of reasons.

Ultimately I learned to set primer seating depths to match the type of primer being seated, to spring the gun for reliable ignition against assorted hard primers, to train myself to deal with a somewhat heavier DA and slightly heavier SA pull, and to use more traditional malfunction drills.