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Thread: Weapons Policy Help Needed

  1. #1

    Weapons Policy Help Needed

    Kind sirs and madams,


    After taking delivery/transitioning to Glock 17 Gen 4s, we have been told that NO modifications shall be done to said new shiny pistolas. Even aftermarket grips such as the Hogue slip on and Talon type grips are all verboten.....even though current policy (written) states that rubber grips are allowed.

    I won't get started on the foolishness of said new "email" policy......another time maybe.

    What I need is some research material to go along with my chain of command letter that is about to get rocketed to the top. As I am known as the "gun guy" or "shooter" etc, I feel that I will be able to get my point across in a respectful manner and hopefully, right the confusion and overall "head scratching" that is currently going on.

    So any cons to aftermarket grips? I know from experience that the Hogues can shift around but I have been running Talons on my duty pistol for quite some time. These were allowed on the M&Ps but not on the new GLocks.

    Are there any studies you can point me to that show the "pros" of rubberized grips? I know that for me, they provide a much more secure grip when I get sweaty, wet from rain, or bloody. My general plan of attack is going to be from a downed officer stance.........or rather, having to shoot the weapon when injured and bleeding all over it along with the natural weather conditions we in patrol face.

    I have a brief history of sending up letters that bring eventual change when a focus on liability is stressed. A good example of which is when I sent up a letter over defective equipment relating to radio mics. Change came about a year later at much embarrassment to management. I'm day shift with weekends off at the 20 year mark so there is no concern about "career suicide".

    The troops are pretty much looking to me to get this rolling and admin has expressed an interest in forming yet another committee so they need this stepping stone to get that rolling too.

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Not that LexiPol is always right (you need to check them against your state's case law), but even they allow some modifications. We're using a pretty much stock Lexipol wording in ours. Here is the wording from the draft policy (sorry, I don't have the current version of the whole manual here):
    306.4.1 REPAIRS OR MODIFICATIONS
    Each member shall be responsible for promptly reporting any damage or malfunction of an assigned firearm to a supervisor or the Firearms Instructor.
    Firearms that are the property of the Department or personally owned firearms that are approved for department use may be repaired or modified only by a person who is department-approved and certified as an armorer or gunsmith in the repair of the specific firearm. Such modification or repair must be authorized in advance by the Firearms Instructor.
    Any repairs or modifications to the member’s personally owned firearm shall be done at his/her expense and must be approved by the Firearms Instructor.


    We've approved changing sights, mag releases, slide stops, grip reductions, mini red dots, lights, lasers. We had several grip condoms when we had Gen 3 -22s, but very few now with Gen 4 -17s. The only trigger / FCGs mods approved have been a) NY1 with a - connector and b) OEM trigger cleaned up & coated by ROBAR.

    We've had modified guns involved in OISs without any drama.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Angus McFee View Post
    Not that LexiPol is always right (you need to check them against your state's case law), but even they allow some modifications. We're using a pretty much stock Lexipol wording in ours. Here is the wording from the draft policy (sorry, I don't have the current version of the whole manual here):
    306.4.1 REPAIRS OR MODIFICATIONS
    Each member shall be responsible for promptly reporting any damage or malfunction of an assigned firearm to a supervisor or the Firearms Instructor.
    Firearms that are the property of the Department or personally owned firearms that are approved for department use may be repaired or modified only by a person who is department-approved and certified as an armorer or gunsmith in the repair of the specific firearm. Such modification or repair must be authorized in advance by the Firearms Instructor.
    Any repairs or modifications to the member’s personally owned firearm shall be done at his/her expense and must be approved by the Firearms Instructor.


    We've approved changing sights, mag releases, slide stops, grip reductions, mini red dots, lights, lasers. We had several grip condoms when we had Gen 3 -22s, but very few now with Gen 4 -17s. The only trigger / FCGs mods approved have been a) NY1 with a - connector and b) OEM trigger cleaned up & coated by ROBAR.

    We've had modified guns involved in OISs without any drama.
    Care to detail the process involved in getting all of these changes added to policy?

    I work for a very large department down here in South Florida and our weapons policy is downright draconian.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    The Wasatch Front
    That is Lexipol's model policy. Don't know about the East Coast, but Lexipol is pretty popular out here for policy. It reads pretty darn close verbiage to our old policy. The Office wanted to go with Lexipol's wording across the board, in all policies not just Use of Force issues. It didn't take any work on our part to get that in the policy.

  5. #5
    Here is the largest local agency's, (Kansas City Mo PD), policy on pistol grips.

    http://kcmo.gov/police/wp-content/up...07redacted.pdf

    3rd page or A-2 section 9. They allow grip reductions and stippling. I do believe you're required to purchase your own pistol through payroll deductions though.

  6. #6
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    south TX
    Quote Originally Posted by lwt16 View Post
    After taking delivery/transitioning to Glock 17 Gen 4s, we have been told that NO modifications shall be done to said new shiny pistolas. Even aftermarket grips such as the Hogue slip on and Talon type grips are all verboten.....even though current policy (written) states that rubber grips are allowed.
    My previous agency (I was a tribal officer at a "hybrid" BIA agency) had a "no modifications" written policy. I was one of the firearms instructors (state & FLETC), and had gotten myself sent to armorer schools for all of our issued weapons (Glock, and Defensive Edge for shotgun/AR15). With my chief's blessing, we used extra end-of-year monies on Mesa Tactical Urbino stocks and Surefire 870 forends, magpul winter trigger guards, XS same-plane rear sight apertures, Thorntail light mounts, single-point sling adapters, etc.

    I was prepared to argue semantics, in that a "modification" was a permanent alteration, whereas everything that I did was considered an "accessory", and could be removed and the weapon returned to its original configuration at any time. All OEM parts were kept on hand for this. It never became an issue.

    Just one way to approach it.

    ETA: I also did this for the local SO, which did not have a lot of $$ for equipment, but got about 5-6 DRMO M-16s. The best bang-for-their-buck was Magpul forends with IWC light mounts (whatever package deal they had at the time).
    Last edited by Chuck Whitlock; 05-22-2017 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Additional thought
    "It's surprising how often you start wondering just how featureless a desert some people's inner landscapes must be."
    -Maple Syrup Actual

  7. #7
    Member 60167's Avatar
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    Midwest
    Quote Originally Posted by KCBRUIN View Post
    Here is the largest local agency's, (Kansas City Mo PD), policy on pistol grips.

    http://kcmo.gov/police/wp-content/up...07redacted.pdf

    3rd page or A-2 section 9. They allow grip reductions and stippling. I do believe you're required to purchase your own pistol through payroll deductions though.

    I see some stippling and some Robar grip reductions on Gen3 guns the more tenured officers carry. By and large, most officers are content with the Gen4 frame sans back strap.
    If you're not going to learn to use the front sight properly, don't bother with it. If pointing the gun, screaming "Ahhhhh!" and cranking on the trigger is all you can learn to do, work on doing that safely. -ToddG

  8. #8
    JLW is our agencies head of all things firearms modification/accessories/additions etc. I don't know it for a fact but he might have some relevant research. He just LOVES stippled pistols. He goes apeshit when someone shows up with a stippled pistol, or a Serpa holster....he rampages for hours about Serpa holsters.

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