Sig sued over defective pistols

[KhanRad]

It's still a long extractor gun, but they are marketed as being as good as/ better than the old 228/M11.

Doubtful. Not a whole lot of officers carry P228s anymore, but we have some extremely high round count guns that are ending their service life now as simulations guns. About the only thing that broke on those guns were roll pins from excessive dry firing. The newer M11 stainless slides with long MIM extractor will never be pushed as hard as the original P228s were since their time in Mil/LE is coming to an end.

[ReverendMeat]

I wonder if the M11-A1 has more stringent QC checks

Highly doubtful. Calling it "M11-A1" instead of "P229", putting "P228" on the grips, it's marketing for civilians.

[KyNate]

Highly doubtful. Calling it "M11-A1" instead of "P229", putting "P228" on the grips, it's marketing for civilians.

According to Ron Cohen himself in THE GUNS DIGEST BOOK OF SIG SAUER PISTOLS the M11-A1 came about because the US ARMY wanted a updated version of the M11 upgrades being Night Sights,Short Reset Trigger,Phosphate Coated Internals/Controls and Higher Capacity

[ReverendMeat]

I'm not aware of any .mil agency issuing the M11 that has adopted the M11-A1.

[call_me_ski]

According to Ron Cohen himself in THE GUNS DIGEST BOOK OF SIG SAUER PISTOLS the M11-A1 came about because the US ARMY wanted a updated version of the M11 upgrades being Night Sights,Short Reset Trigger,Phosphate Coated Internals/Controls and Higher Capacity

He is just trying to sell guns. The M11-A1 was the creation of Sig's marketing department. The .mil has never purchased an M11-A1, nor is it a type classification used by the military. Periodically you can find actual M11 marked Sigs with Stamped slides still released from the Sig pro-shop as contract overruns.

[Tamara]

...we have some extremely high round count guns that are ending their service life now as simulations guns. About the only thing that broke on those guns were roll pins from excessive dry firing..

And here's what happens when a gun goes too long between roll pin changes...

[KhanRad]

And here's what happens when a gun goes too long between roll pin changes...

I've never seen one crack the breech block on a P228 before. On a P220, yes.....twice.

[MattyD380]

And here's what happens when a gun goes too long between roll pin changes...

Whoa.

[DocSabo40]

Doubtful. Not a whole lot of officers carry P228s anymore, but we have some extremely high round count guns that are ending their service life now as simulations guns. About the only thing that broke on those guns were roll pins from excessive dry firing. The newer M11 stainless slides with long MIM extractor will never be pushed as hard as the original P228s were since their time in Mil/LE is coming to an end.

To clarify: are you saying that the original P228 with the welded slide was more durable than the new P229 with the one-piece slide? That seems to differ with what I've read on this board. Honest question, not trying to stir anything up.

[JonInWA]

I wonder if the M11-A1 has more stringent QC checks, because it's essentially a 229 but its marketed as being milspec-style (QR inventory tag and all!). It's still a long extractor gun, but they are marketed as being as good as/ better than the old 228/M11.

With the polymer stuff on Berettas, I believe that actually originated on the Gov's end since they wanted to lower the price on M9s, and that was the best option Beretta could offer after testing and re-validating the pistols with new components. Then those less expensive parts naturally trickled out into the general population/ build template for the Mil type (to keep the commercial M9s 'milspec') and then base model 90 series guns. I don't think all Berettas use the poly bits though, ex. the Wilson Guns and most of the M9A3 (except guide rod).

I'm not all that certain that the military wanted a lower price regarding the M9/M10 contract guns; my impression was that they primarily wanted a resolution to preclude bent guide rods from tying the guns up; if it was in fact a lower price solution for the component/contract, so much the better for all. And while the material cost for a polymer guide rod is probably lower than that for the steel and Bruniton finished one, I have no idea what it cost to bring manufacture/component molding into place to effect the replacement.

Best, Jon