Sig sued over defective pistols

[blues]

Having said all that, I've had MUCH worse times and luck with GLOCK. Their warranty is now 1 year (used to be lifetime), and they almost NEVER offer to pay shipping to them for warranty evaluation. And, let's be serious, there is no way to "gunsmith" a GLOCK, you swap parts, and hope it works. If not, it won't work, ever. My tale of GLOCK woes is long, but 5 bad G19s in a row is a pretty significant run. The last time I needed GLOCK to look at a pistol for substandard performance, it took weeks of calling higher up the food chain to get them to fart out a return shipping label.

Not to contradict your experience at all, Kevin, but in fairness just wanted to say for the record that they just recently replaced the frame and updated all the internals on my 12/88 dated G19 when I directed their Tech Services rep to an image of the chip broken off the frame at the mag well.

While it did cost me the price of overnight shipping (one way), I had the gun back to me a week from the day I shipped it to Smyrna with a new frame and guts.

I've owned that gun for 28 years.

ETA:

I don't know if the reason why they serviced the gun under warranty is because I owned it prior to any change in the warranty language, an LE thing, or if the rep was just being generous that day. But once he saw the image of the chip he immediately said, "yeah, we'll take care of that under warranty" and directed me to the page I needed to fill out to request the service.

[STI]

Full disclosure - I carry GLOCKs all day every day on and off duty, but if I were just getting into the handgun market today, I don't think they'd be my first choice.

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[Exiledviking]

Quality is hard to maintain when they're too busy creating the flavor of the week, ie Scorpion SEAL Super tac whatever. Cohen must think he's running Taco Bell.

[jwperry]

It seems that the "old Sigs rock, new Sigs suck" ideology is well known and (in case such as this) well documented around the internet. I often wonder if it's just isolated incidents blown out of proportion by a vocal minority. But, I have to be honest, I'm in no rush to go buy a brand new Sig. Whether it's warranted or not, I can't help but feel that the newest P2XX Sigs are not the professional tools they once were... but have become more of a niche, consumer-grade product.

I feel this is the greatest truth to their marketing and their legacy product lines right now. There's no reason that a Mk25 should cost nearly double a M9A1 other than manufacturer markup. They're inflating their price point to create an artificial value that gets reflected on their products in the used market.

Other than some 1911 toys, all my 'serious' (as serious as a middle management desk jockey civilian's pistols get...) are classic P series Sigs of modern manufacture.

[psalms144.1]

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GLOCKs, especially the 19s, continued to be plagued by BTF and erratic ejection. As shown in the ENORMOUS number of "how much trigger, how should I grip, etc" my GLOCK threads, GLOCKS are one of the hardest makes on the market to shoot with a high level of accuracy for most people.

The HK VP9 gives better accuracy, better ergonomics, an equivalent or lower price, with more consistency in performance and reliability. It's bigger than the G19, but if I was starting out with a good holster, I have no doubt that I would get used to that "new normal."

The P320 offers better accuracy, better ergonomics, and vastly superior modularity. Never heard of BTF of FTE issues with the P320. Ditto the comments above and size.

Various hammer fired pistols are arguably "safer" for carry, and with practice, can be shot to the same level or higher than what most can achieve with their GLOCKs - both with regards to accuracy and speed.

But, I became a "GLOCK Guy" way back when most people still believed they were invisible to x-rays. I don't doubt I've fired well in excess of 100K through GLOCKs in training, deployments and competition over the last three decades. I have SO much money invested in GLOCKS and magazines/sights/accessories that making a wholesale switch to another platform would be simply not do-able from a financial perspective.

[Tamara]

2) This does NOT portend of good things with the new MHS contract.

IBut, I have to be honest, I'm in no rush to go buy a brand new Sig. Whether it's warranted or not, I can't help but feel that the newest P2XX Sigs are not the professional tools they once were... but have become more of a niche, consumer-grade product.

I don't think it would be speculating too wildly to say that the 320 is receiving the lion's share of attention at the Mother Ship in Exeter right now.

On the upside, I've got a reasonable amount of trigger time on three different personal P320s, plus a bunch more I've just fam-fired, whether from a friend or at a press event, and they've been uniformly reliable.

[PPGMD]

A while back, I saw a thread claiming that the guns LE customers get are made to a different standard (small parts, etc.) than the guns consumers get. Based on your experience, maybe it's all coming from the same pool now.

For enough money gun companies will practically sell you their daughter's virtue. But if you want to pay polymer of money for a metal pistol corners are going to have to be cut.

My personal hope that with the 320 we can see the Classic P series become like the S&W Revolvers, a higher end product that you pay good money for. Or pull an Hk and just discontinue the entire series once sales drop off.

[PPGMD]

I feel this is the greatest truth to their marketing and their legacy product lines right now. There's no reason that a Mk25 should cost nearly double a M9A1 other than manufacturer markup. They're inflating their price point to create an artificial value that gets reflected on their products in the used market.

That model kept them alive, as how many plain jane SIGs do you need? But you slap a fancy finish you have collector idiots willing to fork over 30-40% more to buy a second or a third SIG. During the same period they still sold plain jane guns for a reasonable price (in fact the price increases were minimal on those models).

Remember those of us that buy back ups and back ups to backups are a minority in the gun market.

[MattyD380]

I don't think it would be speculating too wildly to say that the 320 is receiving the lion's share of attention at the Mother Ship in Exeter right now.

On the upside, I've got a reasonable amount of trigger time on three different personal P320s, plus a bunch more I've just fam-fired, whether from a friend or at a press event, and they've been uniformly reliable.

Yeah, no doubt. And I think that reflects a broader reality in today's market; agencies are skewing toward less-expensive striker fired guns, so that's what gets the attention/quality control. P2XXs and (before that) 1911s both used to be military and police mainstays... now they're pretty much all beavertails, bells and whistles. Hopefully Beretta doesn't let the 92 slip when/if the contracts start to dry up.

I will also say that the P320 I shot was perfectly reliable returned good accuracy. Trigger felt pretty much like an SAO to me, so I guess that's not a huge surprise. But it seems like a pretty good gun overall.

[MattyD380]

For enough money gun companies will practically sell you their daughter's virtue. But if you want to pay polymer of money for a metal pistol corners are going to have to be cut.

My personal hope that with the 320 we can see the Classic P series become like the S&W Revolvers, a higher end product that you pay good money for. Or pull an Hk and just discontinue the entire series once sales drop off.

I think the point is that certain consumers are willing to pay more for a classic P series... and they do pay more. A lot more. Yet, they're not getting a gun that's truly made to military/police standards anymore (or at least it doesn't seem like it). I realize the margins are different on metal-framed, hammer-fired guns. But don't upcharge to make your margins, and cut corners on the parts/QC. Which is what it seems like Sig is doing.

Like you said, maybe they'll axe the product line. HK did with the P7. S&W did with the 3rd gens. And, for the record, I would pay serious dough for a resurrected Smith DA/SA autoloader with PC upgrades. Just sayin...