Sig sued over defective pistols

[MattyD380]

I believe this is correct--I have a 2014 legacy blue label P229, and it has a machined locking block and I believe a machined hammer, while current commercial guns are using MIM for these parts. Mine does use MIM for its other small parts (trigger, takedown lever, and I believe decocker/slide stop lever, and I think the extractor was, but I swapped it for a Gray Guns machined extractor).

For what it's worth, this gun (my dedicated training SIG) just flat runs. Its finish is also holding up very well compared to the finishes on my older guns, and it has the second best trigger of any of my SIGs (the first being a 1994 P229 .357 with a DA pull out of the box that feels like a DAK trigger and may have been blessed by Baby Jesus himself...)

I wish that SIG would create a higher priced line that uses higher quality, machined small parts, better QC, test firing at the factory, etc.--the average gun owner wouldn't pay for or notice the difference, but I'm guessing there are enough people out there that would that they could make it profitable.

That seems to corroborate what he's talking about. I'm inclined to think it's pretty legit info. I think John Hearne is actually a member here.

MIM seems all right for some stuff--like hammers, triggers and certain levers. But something like a locking insert... I dunno. Seems to me that a part which takes that much stress should be a machined part--if you're serious about the gun it's going into.

I'd love to see all the things you mentioned come back to the P2XX series. Even if they sold a plain jane P226 for $1200... I'd rather have real QC, machined parts, etc. than fancy add-ons and G10 grips.

[MattyD380]

I need to get these old warhorses out for a run this weekend.

[LockedBreech]

I also really like the idea of a Sig that is more expensive not for fancy features, but for exacting parts and quality control.

Of course, that will never happen, because that would be a tacit admission that they have cost-cut in their base product line.

[BehindBlueI's]

Makes sense, in the context of LE agency buyers. I guess the difference between then and now is that, pre-Glock, there really wasn't a cost effective like that available. Now that there is, I guess we won't see them electing to pay more money for metal DA/SA guns.

One thing to keep in mind is what .gov pays isn't really related to what consumers pay. Manufacturers will sometimes make some pretty spiffy deals to get their guns in certain holsters with the idea it's a marketing expense. I don't know what our state police paid per gun when they went to the P227 after they parted way with Glock, but I do know Sig ponied up for all new duty leather for every trooper.

[Stephanie B]

Manufacturers will sometimes make some pretty spiffy deals to get their guns in certain holsters with the idea it's a marketing expense.

When the NYPD forbade the use of the Kahr-something as a BUG/off-duty piece, the deal that Glock offered was to take the Kahrs in on trade, plus $50, for a G26. The gun shop down the street from me was a Glock dealer; he had stacks of boxed-up G26s and a steady stream of cops coming in to buy them.

Made for some interesting sights, as some of the cops that came in looked like hard-core gangbangers. Definitely looked out of place that far upstate.

[PPGMD]

One thing to keep in mind is what .gov pays isn't really related to what consumers pay. Manufacturers will sometimes make some pretty spiffy deals to get their guns in certain holsters with the idea it's a marketing expense. I don't know what our state police paid per gun when they went to the P227 after they parted way with Glock, but I do know Sig ponied up for all new duty leather for every trooper.

Certainly every company does that. Didn't Glock basically give away the G37s to GA SP to kick start 45GAP?

And there is also the trade in value to consider. An agency with a metal framed gun like a classic P series SIG can often hand their guns in one for one for a polymer gun. Lets not forget Glock antics during the AWB. They traded 40S&W Glocks for 9mm Glocks one for one. Sold the grandfathered mags for $100 each separate from the trade in guns.

Finally LE agencies don't pay FEAT which chops 10% off the price right there.

[MattyD380]

One thing to keep in mind is what .gov pays isn't really related to what consumers pay. Manufacturers will sometimes make some pretty spiffy deals to get their guns in certain holsters with the idea it's a marketing expense. I don't know what our state police paid per gun when they went to the P227 after they parted way with Glock, but I do know Sig ponied up for all new duty leather for every trooper.

P227's huh? That's interesting. Kind of flies in the face of what we've been talking about... but... cool. I'd be interested to know how widespread classic Sigs are in the holsters of LE. Or any DA/SA guns for that matter. I did see some plainclothes officers with Sigs a few years ago here in Northern KY. But I haven't not seen a Glock or an M&P in any local duty holsters for quite a while. Though I don't exactly follow cops around to see what guns they have.

Good point on the agency product placement. I've read that getting guns in LE holsters was an intentional part of Glock's marketing strategy. Guess it worked.

[BehindBlueI's]

P227's huh? That's interesting. Kind of flies in the face of what we've been talking about... but... cool. I'd be interested to know how widespread classic Sigs are in the holsters of LE. Or any DA/SA guns for that matter. I did see some plainclothes officers with Sigs a few years ago here in Northern KY. But I haven't not seen a Glock or an M&P in any local duty holsters for quite a while. Though I don't exactly follow cops around to see what guns they have.

Good point on the agency product placement. I've read that getting guns in LE holsters was an intentional part of Glock's marketing strategy. Guess it worked.

It's definitely a rarity. Troopers are the last big department in the state that issues Sig. Some smaller departments still do, and there are also many that have a "pick from the list" issue policy. We've got a detective from another department here training with us (we get WAY more shootings, so they send people to us to get some experience) and he's got an issued Sig DA/SA they bought because that was his "pick". I'm not sure if Conservation still carries P220s or not. They were the .45 guys even when everyone else went 9mm or .40, for the stated reason of penetrating brush and other possum-cop stuff better. (No idea if that's reality, but that's what they claimed)

[LockedBreech]

P227's huh? That's interesting. Kind of flies in the face of what we've been talking about... but... cool. I'd be interested to know how widespread classic Sigs are in the holsters of LE. Or any DA/SA guns for that matter. I did see some plainclothes officers with Sigs a few years ago here in Northern KY. But I haven't not seen a Glock or an M&P in any local duty holsters for quite a while. Though I don't exactly follow cops around to see what guns they have.

Good point on the agency product placement. I've read that getting guns in LE holsters was an intentional part of Glock's marketing strategy. Guess it worked.

Funny you should mention that. I was in a fairy rural court yesterday and chatting with a few deputies who were there and they're issued P220R Carry. Totally unlike any of the surrounding agencies that all issue Glock


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[MattyD380]

It's definitely a rarity. Troopers are the last big department in the state that issues Sig. Some smaller departments still do, and there are also many that have a "pick from the list" issue policy. We've got a detective from another department here training with us (we get WAY more shootings, so they send people to us to get some experience) and he's got an issued Sig DA/SA they bought because that was his "pick". I'm not sure if Conservation still carries P220s or not. They were the .45 guys even when everyone else went 9mm or .40, for the stated reason of penetrating brush and other possum-cop stuff better. (No idea if that's reality, but that's what they claimed)

Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.