Self-Defense for average people

[Jay Cunningham]

Let's all throttle it back a little, please.

[HCM]

The OP was about self-defense against violent crime. Rape certainly fits that definition as I understand it.

No drama bullshit intended.

If this is a matter of perspective -- that from a LEO viewpoint rape is classified as a sex crime as opposed to a violent one -- then I apologze for the misunderstanding. But I suspect that the average citizen wouldn't make that distinction.

I worked a sex crimes task force for 4 years. Rape is viewed as a violent crime by LEO's. I suspect VDM just mis-spoke.

[peterb]

Rape is largely a female victim centric crime, as such it needs to be addressed in that context.

We can have discussions about it, but from what I've seen, women in general are extremely hesitant and non-receptive to male instruction on the topic of rape prevention.

This being pistol forum and the general topic of discussion being self defense with a firearm, I would be so bold as to say we are out of our "swim lane" talking about this.

Got it. We're interpreting the OP differently. I saw "...minimum self defense strategy for my family members who don't carry.." and read the rest of it as a question about self-defense and personal safety in general -- hence all the talk of combatatives, awareness, first aid courses, etc.

I suspect that a lot of us have women in our lives whose security we worry about, and who don't carry. I do. Any discussion of self-defense that applies to them seems entirely appropriate here.

Your insights and experience are always appreciated.

[rob_s]

Heck, if the object is to take care of yourself and your family, a lot of folks would probably be better off spending a couple of nights a week taking classes to be more employable than working out in a dojo. Economic security and being able to live somewhere safe gives you a lot more choices for managing all the other risks.

Odds:stakes bullshit cliche posts predictably in reply to this aside, this has been my thought from the beginning of this thread. Well, that and the obvious exclusion of any kind of discussion of health and fitness.

Lots of talk about this and that various bad areas and all I can think is the first step of self defense in that case is to just not go to those areas. I frankly have a hard time taking seriously anyone that won't focus on changing their situation and instead burns limited resources on addressing a one in a million occurance. Stakes get less important as odd increase in your favor.

[TGS]

I thought the discussion was about self-defense, and not life safety in general.

[Ed L]

Heck, if the object is to take care of yourself and your family, a lot of folks would probably be better off spending a couple of nights a week taking classes to be more employable than working out in a dojo. Economic security and being able to live somewhere safe gives you a lot more choices for managing all the other risks.

This is a firearm oriented forum centering around firearms and their defensive use. It in no ways precludes one from concentrating on other areas of their life such as employability, career choices, or financial stability. There are quite a few places on the net that focus on that. You could also discuss it in the general discussion category.

[Ed L]

Odds:stakes bullshit cliche posts predictably in reply to this aside, this has been my thought from the beginning of this thread. Well, that and the obvious exclusion of any kind of discussion of health and fitness.

The topic of this thread is self defense for average people. It is focusing on self defense for average people and related self defense topics.

Lots of talk about this and that various bad areas and all I can think is the first step of self defense in that case is to just not go to those areas. I frankly have a hard time taking seriously anyone that won't focus on changing their situation and instead burns limited resources on addressing a one in a million occurance. Stakes get less important as odd increase in your favor.

I agree completely that the first step is awareness and avoidance. Many people in the thread have mentioned this. As well as reading a few of the recommended books, videos, and certain classes, another method is to read over occurrences of crimes with an emphasis on how they happened, when they happened, where they happened, what things the victim did to make themselves vulnerable, etc. You read enough of them and they begin to sound the same. It becomes not hard to realize that opening the door for someone you are not sure of at 1am in the morning is a bad idea, among other things. Or wandering home drunk at 2am in the nightclub section increases your chance of getting jumped.

[Paul Sharp]

Andy Stanford was the first person I recall codifying Avoidance, Deterrence, and De-Escalation. A short time later I discovered Mas Ayoob had also written quite a bit on the subject. A few years later in the Police Academy John Bowman introduced me to John Farnam and Farnam's Quips which are an encyclopedia of information on avoidance, deterrence, and related subjects. I refer often to material from those guys when teaching the basic 2-4 hour self defense course. I start the class with a quote from William Aprill on the most successful approach to self defense; "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose."

re; women's self defense. My 2-4 hour self defense courses involve lots of information from the guys mentioned above, as well as the ShivWorks Collective, Tom Givens, Claude Werner, Chuck Haggard, Greg Ellifritz, as well as Lynn Givens, Eve Kulcsar, and Melody Lauer. There are others I'm forgetting, and I apologize, I probably should break out the PP I use to teach this class so I can properly cite everyone. I don't think I've ever had an original thought when it comes to this material, I do think I've been a diligent student, taking a lot of classes on this topic as well as giving the subject the attention it requires. I've been given permission to pass along the appropriate information, and have figured out how to teach large groups of folks solid material in an efficient manner. My last women's self defense course was three 3 hour blocks, attended by a different group at each block for a total of 103 woman. I offer that only to offer perspective. When I have the opportunity to teach this material, there isn't a lot of physical tools taught. There is a heavy emphasis on trusting your gut, realizing that there is a lot of programming in place at a subconscious, DNA level that is designed to keep us safe IF we pay attention and interpret the data presented by the circumstances in the correct manner.

Having typed all that, probably the best short format women's self defense class I've seen is Larry Lindenman's block he taught at the 2017 Rangemaster Tactical Conference. Larry has taught a short format, (2-4 hours), women's self defense class for years. It's really well done and doesn't involve a Kubotan. So there's that. All kidding aside, it's really well done, and if you have a female family member, friend or loved one I would encourage them to get into a class such as the one taught by Larry. It's solid material.

[Joe in PNG]

Andy Stanford was the first person I recall codifying Avoidance, Deterrence, and De-Escalation. A short time later I discovered Mas Ayoob had also written quite a bit on the subject. A few years later in the Police Academy John Bowman introduced me to John Farnam and Farnam's Quips which are an encyclopedia of information on avoidance, deterrence, and related subjects. I refer often to material from those guys when teaching the basic 2-4 hour self defense course. I start the class with a quote from William Aprill on the most successful approach to self defense; "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose."

Going to grab that William Aprill (sp?) quote as a sig line.

[Totem Polar]

It's really well done and doesn't involve a Kubotan. So there's that...

Two kubotans that Greg fucking broke on a PeP3 guy's arm trying to get a compliance to work.