Self-Defense for average people

[cclaxton]

Here you go.
ETA: The biggest liability/issue in this whole thread is that you carry a gun. If you want to carry a gun and then ask for self-defense 'basic' help, then you're in the wrong church/pew. If you introduce a gun problem into a hand to hand problem, then you're going to need more than 'basic' to un-eff yourself.

I am not asking for myself, I thought that was obvious. I have my own opinion on what constitutes BASIC, but I am interested in hearing what others think on this. I am confused by your post. What are you really trying to say here?
Cody

[Joe in PNG]

Agreed. but to think that winning is being a willing victim when your life or the life of a loved one is in jeopardy is suicide.

Here is a family that decided to be willing victims...this is what happened:https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.c17f130265e0
Cody

That is not my point. Seeing the problem ahead of time and avoiding it altogether is my point. Most people don't do that, because they have their nose stuck in their bookface thingy.

[Totem Polar]

One more thing on "basic level of skill:" we know that every year, hundreds of people defend themselves successfully with essentially no training at all. Everyone reading this is descended from a genetic line of ass-kickers.

I am not saying "no training is fine," but "basic" is pretty much hard-wired into us at birth. Where things go sideways is when "more than a basic level" is called for. Back to the debate now...

[BaiHu]

I am not asking for myself, I thought that was obvious. I have my own opinion on what constitutes BASIC, but I am interested in hearing what others think on this. I am confused by your post. What are you really trying to say here?
Cody

If your daughter/family has access to a gun, pepper spray, flashlight and is working on SA, then we are past the basic phase. If you are carrying a gun and studying KM, then we are past the basic phase. Choose a target that you think is average and go for it. You've got plenty of advice here to work on. Trying to pin down the perfect 'average/basic SD package' is an exercise akin to nailing jello to a mountain with an RPG.

One more thing on "basic level of skill:" we know that every year, hundreds of people defend themselves successfully with essentially no training at all. Everyone reading this is descended from a genetic line of ass-kickers.

I am not saying "no training is fine," but "basic" is pretty much hard-wired into us at birth. Where things go sideways is when "more than a basic level" is called for. Back to the debate now...

BINGO!! I think this is what the majority of us are trying to get through to you. It's why I shared the stupid '911 app', b/c that's as basic/average as you get. Or as Glenn said, get a 'beam me outta here, Scotty' ray. I'm sure @Tom_Jones , needs more inventions to put on the back burner

[cclaxton]

One more thing on "basic level of skill:" we know that every year, hundreds of people defend themselves successfully with essentially no training at all. Everyone reading this is descended from a genetic line of ass-kickers.

I am not saying "no training is fine," but "basic" is pretty much hard-wired into us at birth. Where things go sideways is when "more than a basic level" is called for. Back to the debate now...

Well, that is an interesting perspective. I do think most of us have the survival instinct, and that will kick-in most of the time. But I didn't do much until I started shooting. Then I realized that shooting has a limited set of situations when it can be used, and that there are a ton more where it is more advisable to use other forms of defense. But I learned skills to go with that survival instinct. Some of them are easy to deploy...anybody can do a hair pull defense, for instance. The power of survival is strong, but the power of survival combined with confidence and a few combatives is 10 times more powerful.
Cody

[Joe in PNG]

The more you know, the more you do, the more skills you have- the better off you are if there's trouble you just can't avoid.
There's a hierarchy involved- each thing you add, the better off you will be.

-If we get people to avoid the stupids (places, people, activities, times), they'll be far better off.
-If we add awareness of their surroundings, they're better off.
-If they also take an active role in looking for a way to avoid problems, they're better off.
-If they actively eliminate possible weakness in their defense- better doors, lighting, ect, they're better off
-If they have some sort of weapon, they're better off
-If they have the skill to use it, they're better off

And so it goes.

[Paul Sharp]

A similar question was posted on Facebook. This was my response there, this is sort of my standard response to this question; I think there are some standardized measurements. Solid bluebelt in jits. B class in USPSA. EMT-B rating in medical stuff. Those types of measurements are easily quantified. Driving is a little more difficult as is the verbal agility component although Toastmasters scoring system was a decent data tracking point.

[Ed L]

The average person is not going to see this as a life study.
But the average person is willing to do a series of Saturdays (I think between 4-10) over a year) and then a yearly reminder.
Maybe that is the way to approach this: Look at how much time the average person is willing to commit and then prioritize there?
Cody

I think by the time a person has done this or taken Krav maga classes they are no longer the average person.

[Ed L]

Agreed what I do is way above average.
But I would like to repeat my question: "What level of training does an average person need to provide BASIC self-defense?"
I didn't ask what they can afford or how much time they are willing to spend.
What is the level of skill that provides BASIC self-defense?...Just Avoidance and Situational Awareness?...That's it?
Cody

This is the problem. What we perceive they need is often different from what they perceive they need or are willing to do. And as Glen astutely mentioned, people are limited by time constraints, financial constraints, physical constraints. Most people are not going to rise to meet what you or I consider a minimum level of preparation. Unless they or someone close to them is a crime victim, they are not likely to reach the level that we might think is necessary.

I think the best we can hope for is to bring them along as far as we can.

Also just because you explain to them about situational awareness and avoidance and they seem to get it, doesn't mean that they will practice it all of the time or be following through with it a year from now.

I had a female acquaintance, a single mother, who was very shaken up after something was stolen from the outside of an unoccupied house that she had for sale. She wanted to get a gun. She knew nothing about guns at the time.

I took her to the range. We started with a safety brief and teaching how to load and unload snapcaps from a revolver and an automatic. She fired some of the guns I brought and rented others. I had her fire both a revolver and several automatics and she decided she wanted an auto. She settled on the M&P 9mm compact and bought one. This was to be a gun for her home.

I taught her how to load/unload a gun, firearms safety, how to shoot, including retention shooting and shooting with the sights taped over for when she might not be able to see the sights in darkness or in a fast breaking close up situation. I explained about legalities and let her know that attackers did not not drop from one shot the way they did in movies. I went over the whole avoid stupid people/places/things and other crime recognition avoidance advice. We went shooting several times. I believe I gave her Paxton Quigley's book Armed and Female.

When I went to her house I noticed that she just had her regular deadbolt replaced with a high security Medico deadbolt--on a door that I could easily punch through. I pointed this out to her and suggested that she replace the door with another or get a security storm door. I also suggested that she get an alarm for the deterrence effect and as an early warning system. She did not follow through on either of these.

I then suggested that it would be a good idea if she would take a Wayne Dobbs/ Darryl Bolke 1 day intro to pistol class. She wasn't interested.

I then asked her if she was as proficient with the handgun as she wanted to be. She answered that she wasn't.

I pointed out that Wayne and Darryl were far better instructors than I am and that a one day class would be a great way to reinforce what we had covered over 4-5 shooting sessions. She dug her heals in against it.

So I guess my answer for how much is enough for the average person is to aim for as much as you can get them to do without it seeming overwhelming.

In most situations you will only be able to take them as far as they are willing to go and hope that it is enough if they ever want to use it.

[Ed L]

One more thing on "basic level of skill:" we know that every year, hundreds of people defend themselves successfully with essentially no training at all. Everyone reading this is descended from a genetic line of ass-kickers.

I am not saying "no training is fine," but "basic" is pretty much hard-wired into us at birth. Where things go sideways is when "more than a basic level" is called for. Back to the debate now...

I understand what you are saying, but even more people fail to successfully defend themselves and become victims of crime by doing the stupid people/stupid/places/stupid things, by not locking their door, by opening their door for someone whom they should not have, by not having their gun on them, by getting jumped before they can get to their gun, or just getting into an avoidable situation and getting their ass kicked, etc.