Yes.Originally Posted by rob_s
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Yes.
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Think for yourself. Question authority.
Well, Glocks and some other designs might be a little more tolerant of running dirty and dry -- which only happens when the user lets maintenance slide. On the other hand I once put a 9mm 1911 through the 2K Challenge with no trouble. And I think the operation of the gun is very dependent on use of the thumb safety. Which makes the manual of arms a little more complicated than a Glock for example. I think the thumb safety also helps with the "problem solving" aspects you referred to -- but the user has to understand the problem.
I'm not sure I disagree with your points, and not sure I 100% agree either.
I have really been enjoying this thread, I think that we have had a great discussion from a variety of viewpoints. That it popped up right when I was awaiting delivery of another 1911, after years of them mostly setting in my safe, was just bonus. In my case I went through years of exploring other things striker-fired, because they were new and different and interesting to me. Only after a friend kinda brutally pointed it out did I realize that I have been grabbing the guns with the big plastic dots that I can see on them, so I got a set of those big plastic dots for my SA Marine Operator and now I am back to being one of the zealots.
But as we hit page four, I started to wonder a bit if maybe we all, and me especially, are ASSuming that the young man in question actually is endeavoring to become a shooter that pursues the development of a skill set, or is he just planning to BUY something? After all, Sam did say:
Cause if he is just getting something that will flop around the console in condition three, then yeah, he should just get the same pragmatic Glock 19 that all his buddies bought, and I retract all of my prose defending his individualistic choice of something potentially unique amongst his tribe of young dudes and just fall in line!
Last edited by mmc45414; 05-23-2017 at 07:26 AM. Reason: I cannot spell, even with spellcheck…
Going back to my analogy of 1911 = '66 Mustang, I didn't say that the old pony car was unreliable or useless. Just different if one is used to the current crop of next to no maintenance modern cars.
Both require a bit of mechanical know how to keep running properly, are happier with a bit more lube than the moderns, and will definitely need a touch of work to make comfortable.
In my analogy, if Ford was still selling '66 spec Mustangs, you could buy one from Ford, but with drum brakes, lap belts, and the rest. You could also buy one from Shelby, Rousch, et al with uprated disc brakes, seatbelts, better transmissions, A/C, and so on for near double the base model price. Or you can buy the base model, then add them yourselves.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
I miss my 65 mustang......
I shared a '66 hardtop with my sister back in the early 90's- loved it, and regret not having it now.I miss my 65 mustang......
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
I sold my E36 with 22x,xxx miles on it. At the time, I could describe everything that was awesome about it, and it would sound like a whole car. And I could list everything that was screwed up about it, and that would sound like a whole car, too. The things it did well, it did better than many new cars theoretically similar in mission costing $50k+. But it was getting to the point where it was a rolling, ongoing restoration to keep its hooptiness from growing.
One with lower miles, if it's been kept in a garage out of the sun, could be very good. There are still a lot of things that need to be replaced every ~60k miles just because. It only works financially if you spin your own wrenches.
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Not another dime.
1:Please take the 1999 BMW. If for nothing else than cars like that need good homes.
2:I put myself in the camp that started shooting in the post "1911 or nothing else" phase. I was in my late 20s and circa 2006-07 started shooting Glocks and HKs. I had no idea what a 1911 was. Fast forward 10-11 years and I carry a G17 on the job each day, have gone through great training on Uncle Sam's dime and own a Series 1 Kimber for personal use....I'm saving for a Colt CCU 9MM.
I don't have near as much experience as others on this board but I have spent some time on the range. I just don't see what the issue is with people wanting to carry/shoot 1911s. A gun from a reputable manufacturer (Colt, Springfield, SIG and the Custom Boys) is good to go. I've seen Glocks, HKs and Sigs all fail. I've seen 1911s fail. 95% of end users are not taking ANY of their guns apart to fix or replace hard to get at parts. That's what smiths do, customer service does or....it just doesn't happen.
I've shot and taken care of a 229, G17 and Kimber 1911. All get cleaned pretty much the same. All get treated the same and all go bang. The 1911 has way to much "Lore" about it, both positive and negative. It is not a "Man Stopper" and it is not a "Nightmare" to maintain. It is a tool that dispenses different caliber rounds through single action trigger distribution.
I've had guys I've taught to shoot love the 1911 and others prefer something else. I've had small 20+ year old girls pick the thing up, never get "confused" by the safety etc, blast away and say I'm buying one of those. It is a simple tool in reality that requires basic maintenance for again, 95% of end users. Oil here, here and here. Change this spring every 3000 rounds or buy a Flatwire and do it every 10,000.
The 1911 of today is equivalent to a 2017 BMW 3 Series. The Glock is a 2017 Honda Civic. Both will get you from A to B. The entry cost and maintenance upkeep are as different as the two cars themselves.. Choose wisely and Stay Thirsty my friends.
Tango, it's not that folks on the board want to discourage people from using 1911s -- many members here own and appreciate them. Some, like me, carry them. But a lot of time is spent here discussing the "best approach" at doing something or solving a problem. If someone, even a new shooter, wants to buy a 1911 then fine -- but they shouldn't think it's exactly like owning a Glock only prettier. A good 1911 built to a standard specification (or better) will run and run with proper maintenance. But a thorough understanding of the gun, its mechanical function, and its safety mechanisms are pretty important and not everyone will bother.
By the way, the CCU is a nice pistol -- I wouldn't mind having one in 9mm myself.
Although I think there's nothing wrong with telling your friend what you think or what others think. I think if your friend is truly interested then point him to a couple of references such as this thread, this forum, and the 1911 forum and have him do his own research. If he's truly interested I think it always best to do my own research but sometimes it's just extremely helpful to have a starting point. This way I have a chance to take a look at what's out there and determine what does and doesn't apply to me.
Last edited by Dddrees; 05-24-2017 at 10:01 AM.
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