Knife as a SD weapon - aftermath

[Dismas316]

Wanted to ask some of you out there, especially experienced LE and trainers. (Tom Givens, Craig Douglas, or those that actually teach edge weapon classes) Has anyone have documentation or a news feed about a SD situation where the person defended themselves with a knife against a bad guy? We read pretty regularly about SD with a gun, but I can't remember ever reading about someone being saved because they carried a knife. Not saying never happens but I just don't ever recall hearing about it.

My thought about this is that if I'm carrying a knife for SD, and I'm attacked and start stabbing someone, "stopping the threat" is nothing like a gun, it may be 5,10, 15 or more stab wounds before the threat might be stopped. Now I have stabbed someone multiple times and would imagine blood everywhere. A prosecutor could have a field day, and so would a jury.

Point being is very unlikely that taking down a bg with a knife doesn't happen with one or two stab wounds, even if it's justified, it could look like the total oppostie. (Asumming the attack is a pretty motivated individual, drug induced etc)

I'm curious if any of you in LE has come upon a situation like that and what was it like for the good guy to prevail. As I asked, I never seem to read a newsfeed or hear about this happening. Some of you trainers who teach this I would assume you've seen this.

Just seems to me that SD with a knife (outside your home) would be pretty difficult to prove your not using excessive force and after the bloodbath it sure would appear that you are the problem. Curious as to you LEO's ever roll up on this situation, what are your first thoughts and how does it play out?

[okie john]

Tagged.

[45dotACP]

Varg Freeborn would be the guy to listen to about this. He's on the Primary and Secondary podcast.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[SAWBONES]

I've thought along the very same lines as the OP, and though I daily carry a dedicated (not for general use or chores) edged weapon, I've hoped that, should I ever need it in a genuine primary self-protection role, it would be sufficiently effective to deter an adversary early on, without requiring too much mess.

Of course there's no predicting how anything might go.

Survival first, explanations afterward.

[BehindBlueI's]

We had one fairly recently, my sergeant was lead on it. In broad strokes, a stranger was probably intoxicated and acting like an a-hole to employees in a retail location. For some reason he elected to verbally threaten and aggressively approach a customer as he entered the door during the argument. When aggressive a-hole approached him, the customer gut stabbed him. A-hole retreated then came at him again, and got gut stabbed again. Then again. A-hole comes at him a 4th time and the customer told him something like "I've stabbed you several times, don't you see you're bleeding? Maybe you should sit down and call 911 for an ambulance." A-hole leaves, collapses, and survives after ER treatment.

The case was not filed because the A-hole was completely uncooperative with the investigation. As such, it was never referred to the prosecutor because the "victim" would not give a statement. I'm unsure how it would have played out had it been referred as the customer used deadly force against a verbal threat and approach, there were no glaring disparity of force issues (roughly same size, age, one on one confrontation) but the A-hole was likely chemically altered.

I have long suspected juries react differently to a knife, however the prosecutors I've spoken with say they've seen no pattern indicating as much. If it's a factor, it's a remote one, at least locally.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

http://fox43.com/2017/05/12/da-no-ch...lancaster-man/

Here's a case.

[Gater]

If you have not seen already, I recall some good discussion in this thread:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....a-Hawaii-hotel

[El Cid]

The first thing that comes to mind is to have an idea where on the bad guy to stab rather than just wildly striking until the threat ends. Defoor's superb description of "timers and switches" applies to knives as well as firearms. We spend a good amount of time focusing on the best place to shoot at bad guy - we should do the same with a knife. Train on a dummy, target, etc. Use mental rehearsal to visualize the knife strikes. What's the phrase on the Clinch Pock t-shirt? "Because you can't tourniquet a taint" or words to that effect. If you can get training from a SME, jump at the chance.

Yes it will every bloody, personal, and ugly. Beats being dead though.

As for real world examples I recall a LEO recently used a knife to thwart an attack - can't recall where. I also remember many years ago reading an article by Mas Ayoob about a man (Filipino I think) who had to defend himself with edged weapons. Because he was very good with balisongs he destroyed his attacker. There were so many wounds on the bad guy he was prosecuted as they thought it was overkill. Ayoob had him demo his technique in court on a heavy bag and they saw his skill delivered many, many cuts in a very short amount of time. He was acquitted.

[Dismas316]

http://fox43.com/2017/05/12/da-no-ch...lancaster-man/

Here's a case.

Talk about good timing (well not so much for the people involved), looks like this just happened recently. Thanks for linking that, pretty good example of how it can work our in your favor, good thing their were witnesses and camera's.

If you have not seen already, I recall some good discussion in this thread:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....a-Hawaii-hotel

Thanks, I actually now remember reading this story when it was posted, forgotten about it. That was in interesting one for sure.

What El Cid just posted about above is along the lines that I was thinking. Good thing they had Ayobb to testify because that is exactly the reaction that I think 99% of the general public who never have even thought about self defense issues would have. Anything more than a stab or two would be "overkill"

[Doc_Glock]

On Jocko podcast recently, Harley Flanagan talked about his jail time and prosecution in relation to his defense using a knife when jumped by four or so guys and in fear of his life.

I don't know the details of the case, but the aftermath was a pretty big deal.