9mm JSP - what's its purpose?

[psalms144.1]

Brother Blues - you probably know my advice already, but, here goes:

1. The New Jersey Turnpike is the Highway to (and through) Hell most times. I'd suggest a complete "skip" around it due to traffic and legal issues. From your neck of the woods I'd cut north on 77 to 81, and stay on 81 until you cut east on 80 for the GWB.
2. Gas isn't cheaper in NJ than surrounding areas since the passage of the gas tax. Prices are now comparable to "street" prices on LI. So, don't go to NJ.
3. I've been told by more than one NJSP official that, as far as they're concerned, my current, full time federal LEOs are NOT authorized to carry JHP when they're not "on duty," and should be carrying FMJ, if they're carrying at all (all the while implying that anyone who carries a weapon off duty is unhinged).

Just my thoughts as someone trapped up here... It's actually BETTER for me living in NY, from a firearms perspective, than for my guys who live/work in NJ - because NYS recognizes my agents as peace officers.

[blues]

Brother Blues - you probably know my advice already, but, here goes:

1. The New Jersey Turnpike is the Highway to (and through) Hell most times. I'd suggest a complete "skip" around it due to traffic and legal issues. From your neck of the woods I'd cut north on 77 to 81, and stay on 81 until you cut east on 80 for the GWB.
2. Gas isn't cheaper in NJ than surrounding areas since the passage of the gas tax. Prices are now comparable to "street" prices on LI. So, don't go to NJ.
3. I've been told by more than one NJSP official that, as far as they're concerned, my current, full time federal LEOs are NOT authorized to carry JHP when they're not "on duty," and should be carrying FMJ, if they're carrying at all (all the while implying that anyone who carries a weapon off duty is unhinged).

Just my thoughts as someone trapped up here... It's actually BETTER for me living in NY, from a firearms perspective, than for my guys who live/work in NJ - because NYS recognizes my agents as peace officers.

I must've missed this earlier. I usually take 81 up the Shenandoah Valley and turn right on 78 across PA toward Easton. Then I either proceed to my sister or mother in NJ or continue until I turn off for the Verrazano bridge and head up to Ozone Park or Howard Beach.

Can't remember the last time I was on the Tpke or Garden State Pkwy. And don't get me started on jug handles...LOL!

[TGS]

3. I've been told by more than one NJSP official that, as far as they're concerned, my current, full time federal LEOs are NOT authorized to carry JHP when they're not "on duty," and should be carrying FMJ, if they're carrying at all (all the while implying that anyone who carries a weapon off duty is unhinged).

Just my thoughts as someone trapped up here... It's actually BETTER for me living in NY, from a firearms perspective, than for my guys who live/work in NJ - because NYS recognizes my agents as peace officers.

I honestly can't imagine this being a problem.

So you get some jerkoff who is 1), a jerkoff, and 2) doesn't understand his laws.

He can say whatever he wants, but the fact remains that we don't draw our powers from the NJ state Constitution, but the US Constitution, and we are carrying an authorized duty weapon with our issued (and required) ammunition in accordance with our agency policies and my statutory authority to do so.

I can even point to the fact that carrying off duty is explicitly addressed as being in the scope of my duties.

At the end of the day, Uncle Sam says I can. I can't imagine that this would be an issue beyond a phone call with even the most serious of jerkoff......even with my tele-tubby of a LE agency.

I'm not going to let "southern hospitality" keep me from carrying my gun or performing my job in the South, so I'm not going to let some jerkoff dictate my authorities because "it's his highway".

[blues]

From the FEDS "LEOSA" PLI policy:

Coverage

The FEDS LEOSA/CCW Personal Liability Insurance policy pays for legal defense and indemnification for civil suits resulting from a lawful act under LEOSA. The policy also provides criminal defense costs resulting from a criminal action involving a self-defense related incident and criminal defense against state charges of unlawful carriage of a firearm or federally legal ammunition when lawfully carrying under LEOSA or CCW.

NJ can pound sand as far as I'm concerned. When they override the constitution and federal law they can talk to me then.

[donmacc]

Wow. You guys really have your panties in knot over nothing. Here is the specific NJ law regarding the exemption of federal officers from NJ weapons restrictions.

NJ Statute: 2C:39-6. Exemptions

a. Provided a person complies with the requirements of subsection j. of this section, N.J.S.2C:39-5 does not apply to:

(1)Members of the Armed Forces of the United States or of the National Guard while actually on duty, or while traveling between places of duty and carrying authorized weapons in the manner prescribed by the appropriate military authorities;

(2)Federal law enforcement officers, and any other federal officers and employees required to carry firearms in the performance of their official duties;

[donmacc]

Hollow point bullets:

NJ Statute: 2C:39-3. Prohibited weapons and devices.

f.Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or

[blues]

Wow. You guys really have your panties in knot over nothing. Here is the specific NJ law regarding the exemption of federal officers from NJ weapons restrictions.

NJ Statute: 2C:39-6. Exemptions

a. Provided a person complies with the requirements of subsection j. of this section, N.J.S.2C:39-5 does not apply to:

(1)Members of the Armed Forces of the United States or of the National Guard while actually on duty, or while traveling between places of duty and carrying authorized weapons in the manner prescribed by the appropriate military authorities;

(2)Federal law enforcement officers, and any other federal officers and employees required to carry firearms in the performance of their official duties;

Hollow point bullets:

NJ Statute: 2C:39-3. Prohibited weapons and devices.

f.Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or

Yes, but for some of us retired federal law enforcement officers who can carry nationwide under LEOSA it's "knot" much ado about nothing.

LEOSA, (HR218), states that notwithstanding state law, those who are entitled to carry under its provisions may carry any handgun ammunition legal under federal law.

If NJ makes us go to the trouble to defend ourselves in court despite the law being in our favor, I'd hardly consider that a trifle.

And frankly, I'd prefer to decide for myself the most reliable ammo to legally carry to defend myself or a loved one in the event that such a circumstance should be encountered.

e) As used in this section--(1) the term "firearm"--
(A) except as provided in this paragraph, has the same meaning as in section 921 of this title;
(B) includes ammunition not expressly prohibited by Federal law or subject to the provisions of the National Firearms Act; and
(C) does not include--
(i) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);
(ii) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and
(iii) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

[donmacc]

I agree wholeheartedly with the supremacy of federal law with respect to LEOSA. But there are some twists and turns in NJ. NJ had a retired police officer carry law (RPO) before LEOSA. According to state law retired NJ cops have to apply to the NJSP for a a RPO carry permit. The permit is renewed yearly. Retirees are required to qualify twice yearly on the same qualification course as active cops. The state takes the position that NJ retirees have to obtain a state issued RPO permit to carry a weapon in NJ. Since the RPO permit is issued under state law the other provision (hollow points) comes into play. Retired cops are not LEO's in NJ and therefore dont qualify for the exemption. So under state law they cant carry hollow point ammo. That being said I highly doubt some cop is going to ask to see your ammo on a traffic stop.

That being said, who wants to test the supremacy of LEOSA in NJ? Do you want to be arrested, incarcerated, post a bond, hire an attorney, deal with the potential for a criminal trial, then go thru having to seek expungements of your arrest record, a civil trial for damages, etc. Not me. Its much easier to buy a box of CD or Guard Dog when i travel to NJ. An incident at a NJ airport with the TSA inspection of my luggage convinced me of that.

Sadly, I believe the issues will only be resolved by the courts in connection with a self defense shooting by a retiree carrying under the provisions of LEOSA. Until that time there is no incentive for NJ to go to the trouble of rewriting/amending existing state law.

[blues]

donmacc, no, I don't want to test the supremacy of LEOSA in NJ but by the same token I am not going to deny myself the right to legally carry the ammunition of my choice.

Far better men than me have faced hardship and made the ultimate sacrifice to guarantee our rights under the constitution of the United States. I'd feel like a sniveling wretch if I didn't stand up and do my part.

And what if, in the infinitesimally small chance of a lethal encounter in NJ, the quality of the carried ammunition might prove to be the difference between stopping and incapacitating a felon before committing murder or grave bodily harm, or his being able to complete those acts even if he suffered grave injury from his wounds and succumbed after the fact?

I don't think I want to leave that decision in the hands of others when it's properly and legally mine to make, even though I have sufficient 9mm Critical Defense on hand.

(And I hope it never comes to pass...any of it.)

[donmacc]

Blues - my posting of the laws and reference to the "knot" was in regard to the comments about federal LEO's not being able to carry HP ammo off duty in NJ.

Retirees are another matter. Retirees dont have the deep pockets, regulations, or authority of their former employers. You are on your own and personally liable for your actions. Conversely you are free from your former employer's policies and restrictions and can do what you want. I completely agree with your desire to carry the best defensive ammo. As with all things in life, think things through, make your decision, and move forward knowing the potential consequences and solutions.