what was the environment like did you ever clean it how was it stored when not in use??Originally Posted by M2CattleCo
what was the environment like did you ever clean it how was it stored when not in use??
Just bush hogging around my small place, I've found a use for the glock "butt plug".
I find the YouTube torture tests rather amusing to watch. They really don't hold much water with me in the fact that it's a single sample. The worst I have subjected my pistols to is the occasional dip in the local rivers when fly fishing. When that happens I stop and clean/lube and go back to fishing.
Any time I get a new firearm I go to the range and run a few types of SD rounds through it and call it good.
As for military and police? How much is their pistol truly used on a daily basis? As stated above. These things get tested enough from the manufacturers. They aren't reinventing the wheel here.
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Environment was a Milt Sparks VMII in South Texas. It was pretty much always in use, it got cleaned/wiped off and re-lubed occasionally, but not much.
Hmmm I wonder why it rusted then it sounds like you took the proper steps to prevent this.
Glocks I have had.
17,19,20,21,22,30,and 43. Gen 2, 3, and 4.
I live in Florida and spend a lot of time outdoors sweating.
Never a speck of rust on any of them inside or out.
Except for the M&P striker channel, of course
Last edited by DocSabo40; 05-10-2017 at 12:31 PM.
I had rust on a couple M&Ps back in the day; one was used during a competition in the rain the other was used in an extremely foggy/humid day. Both pistols were wiped down after use and placed in their range pouches (Midway type pistol bag). Both had rust on them within a week.
I had a Kimber Covert Pro barrel rust, that was only ever exposed to me, no real weather elements. But that was an EDC gun for 2ish years.
I had rust on the Novak rear sight of a Nighthawk Custom GRP. I also got rust on all my Heinie Slant Pro sights on all my Sigs(was up to 6 before I swapped them all off for Sig X-Ray sights). The NH & the Sigs have been exposed to all kinds of conditions, including freshwater submersion, saltwater submersion, mud, humidity, sweat and dust. No issues, other than finish wear, on the pistols themselves and sometimes maintenance was delayed for a few days due to my location or 'other' activities(wasn't going to clean my pistol after a day of fishing when I could be drinking beer instead!)
I've had rust on my surplus Soviet guns (M44, M91/30, SKS), a Polish Tantal and a CMMG M4gery. I think that had to do with the ammo I was using in the surplus guns and the CMMG was on the shooting bench when they were used, so it received contamination.
What about sprinkling crumbs, mustard, and soda on the gun while in the holster? I imagine that to be a hostile environment for some who eat while they drive armed...
My issue with the various torture tests done by You Tube personalities or manufacturers is that they are inconsistent, unscientific, susceptible to bias and not fairly or reasonably comparable to each other. What is needed is a regular consistent testing procedure consisting of set tests done by a neutral third party. Something along the lines of Mil spec,SAAMI or the FBI ammunition testing procedures.
When tests are done by manufacturers the end consumer must trust the manufacturer, the test results don't always indicate all the details of each test nor how many failures occurred previous to a successful outcome. They are done by a party with a vested interest in a positive outcome and again are not reasonably comparable to any other manufacturers tests of choice.
The You Tube or other various electronic or print media entity doing a test you have similar problems. The party doing the test may be sponsored by or supported by currently or hopes to be in the future by a manufacturer. This may be by the manufacturer they are testing a product from or from a competitor. They may also be advertising influenced for or against part of the test, such as ammunition selection. The test themselves are also problematic for comparison sake. If tester A uses 50% water to 50% Georgia clay how does that compare with tester B who uses 70% water with 30% Michigan top soil in each persons mud test. Same goes for sand test using fine talcum type sand vs moist sandbox sand. Drop test may be conducted on dirt,gravel,concrete or a steel plate. All can influence the success or failure. Different heights can also have significant difference.
What would be a nice solution to many of the issues is to have set tests carefully developed by experts in the field with input from end users. These tests should be carefully laid out with parameters clearly set for each test and how it is conducted. This would be similar to FBI ammunition tests. The test would be performed on a production sample of the gun to be tested and done by a third party. Kind of like Consumer Reports or Gun Tests. This could be an organization like SAAMI but for gun manufacturers.
This would help end users/consumers as they would know that a gun they are considering meets certain criteria and can compare it to others in the same category or whatever they are considering. This is especially important when new guns or models are introduced and have no track record at all but may be well worth considering. Think of Glock in 1985 vs today. This also would help manufacturers in that they would have a known and consistent set of parameters to strive for. If they passed all the tests done by a third party they could have an advertising perk in having the seal of approval. Like the Good Houskeeping seal of approval,United Underwriters Laboratory.
I would like to see a test program to include
Drop test (5 feet high onto steel plate) sights down,magazine down,left side,right side down, muzzle down and rear of slide down)
Mud test submerged in 50% dirt 50% water with dirt being set as top soil
Sand test with set particle size limits large and small with a set humidity level of the sand
Water submerged test
Temperature test from -20 - 130 degrees F
Accuracy test at 25 yards
Reliability test by firing 2500 rounds of various ammo in different velocities,bullet type and weight. Start the gun clean and lubed but allow no more than a field cleaning and lube every 750 rounds fired with no break other than reloading and allowed cleaning/lube intervals. All malfunctions or stoppages noted. This could be altered to double or triple the round count for an extreme durability test.
Additionally the gun should be placed in a holster and subjected to a shaker test in various G levels to simulate driving down a rough road and/or large short G levels to simulate crash impact or close range explosive such as military members may encounter. These would need to be levels survivable by a wearing.
Salt water spray test using set saline level and spray for X number of hours then allowed to dry for X number of hours.
Lastly for me would be to include all the detailed dimensions. Important but almost never done are measurements of grip circumference, back strap to trigger face at rest distance, Grip circumference just below trigger guard and at magazine well opening, grip width at horizontal line at center of trigger.
Trigger pull in detail to include, take up, pull to wall if staged like a Glock, total pull length,overtravel length and reset length and weight for each.
I worked in the automotive industry for a supplier to GM,Ford,BMW,Chrysler,Jeep and others before I finished my degree for law enforcement. We regularly performed these types of tests in controlled and consistent settings using heating cabinets, shaker tables and combination fixtures that heat and cooled while shaking at various G levels. Salt water spray baths were also done as well as impact tests. We did these to failure or a set standard. I am surprised there are not already set tests and standards for the gun industry. We have FMVSS,DOT,Snell,CAFE, for our much more complex automobiles, Lumens,submersion, impact and other tests for flashlights and many other less critical products.
ETA The tests could be conducted on several sample guns with highs and lows recorded as well as averages to show how consistent the manufacturing process is like ammunition velocity for highs lows average and standard deviation.
Last edited by octagon; 05-10-2017 at 06:51 PM.
