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Thread: Cultural question - how to avoid being That Guy

  1. #1
    Site Supporter Notorious E.O.C.'s Avatar
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    Cultural question - how to avoid being That Guy

    When I'm not wasting time on the interwebs, I work in emergency management. I just changed jobs to take a planning/training/exercise position in an EM office that's subordinate to a small police department. Previously, this was a lieutenant's position, but when the last guy left, the administration reclassified it to civilian. Their thinking was that this position's duties don't require a badge and a gun, so the change freed up a sworn officer billet to handle more policing.

    In my previous job, I rarely worked with law enforcement personnel. That office was an independent EM agency that worked much more closely with our local fire/EMS/HAZMAT department. Prior to entering EM, I was a private-sector cubicle farmer. Thus, I'm very much an outsider not just to my new agency but to LE culture. I'm looking for any advice on how I can ease the assimilation process and not be That Guy with both the administration and the road officers.

    ETA: And yeah, I typo'd the title. Shouldn't be trusted with a keyboard before the caffeine takes hold... :/
    Last edited by Notorious E.O.C.; 05-07-2017 at 06:54 AM.

  2. #2
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    Hard to give you specifics without knowing specifics.

    When it comes to military and police I think of it as what you don't do that might work. I've see people try too hard to be on the inside of a unit. Ultimately if you want inside a Hazmat unit or a SWAT team then you will need to go become a firefighter or a police officer.

    Just learning your job and doing it well goes a long way in being respected. The rest is just a matter of time. You may find that some officers will suggest that you are in a supporting role. That can be tough when it becomes obvious that you are smarter than most of the people around you. Being courteous and professional can allow you to make connections where other's who try too hard don't.

    I don't know specifically who in law enforcement you might work with but in my old job the EM worked mostly with command staff and Fire personnel. For command staff, many of them are just like you. They are on the outside of our club. My above ideas should work well with them. If you end up working with special units of LEO or Fire Department staff where they are workers, i.e. SWAT/Hazmat, then it will take more time to prove to them you are competent and a, "Good guy" and thus can be respected. The idea of, "Earning your stripes" goes a long way but takes time.

    Our society has a love/hate relationship with LEO's. Hero or villain with not much in between. But don't make the mistake that we are not just like everyone else. The social dynamics of a police department looks more like the 7th grade than it does a college course on social dynamics.
    What you do right before you know you're going to be in a use of force incident, often determines the outcome of that use of force.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    Just learning your job and doing it well goes a long way in being respected. The rest is just a matter of time. You may find that some officers will suggest that you are in a supporting role. That can be tough when it becomes obvious that you are smarter than most of the people around you. Being courteous and professional can allow you to make connections where other's who try too hard don't. .
    This. Ask a lot of questions and listen to the answers. Questions like "What problems have you seen with .........?" and "What would make it easier for you to do .............?" make it clear that you value their experience and opinions. Keep your word. If you say you'll get back to someone, do it. If you don't know something, say so, do your homework, and get back to them.

    If you do all that they still may not like you but they will respect you.

  4. #4
    LE is the same as the fire service- it's a closed society until and unless acceptance in earned. You don't need to be on the front line to gain respect, just to be good at whatever your job is. One of the easiest ways to loose credibility and respect is to try to be something you are not, so know and accept your role and be the best you can at that role.

    You may have the unenviable experience of being stuck between the command's desire to say they are ready for anything, and the operations side of not actually being ready due to a litany of hurdles. Sometimes one side will be right, sometimes the other will be right, but in both instances you will be stuck in the middle. Its your job to be the subject matter expert and give the best and most reasoned advice possible. One of best compliments I've heard was "he told me what I needed to hear, not necessarily what I wanted to hear." Try to be that guy.

    It sounds like your role will be mostly supporting the agency's mission, not executing it. That is meant to be descriptive, not derogatory. With that supportive role in mind, I would suggest seeking guidance from above on "what" the mission(s) is/are. Then solicit opinions from those who are tasked with executing that mission. Those opinions may include how to accomplish the mission, what their needs are in personnel/training/equipment/etc.. or even identifying unknowns that need further research. Evaluate those opinions, throw out the bad and incorporate the good into your path forward. Once you have identified the agency's needs, follow through with planning, training, procurement, etc... By demonstrating respect for the roles and experiences of those within the organization in all directions, you will gain credibility and respect from all.
    Anything I post is my opinion alone as a private citizen.

  5. #5
    Good suggestions so far. I would add to go on ride along, go to roll calls to meet and speak with the troops who may be looking for something you can provide or be expected to do something you are implementing. Just as Admin are often looked at as outsiders with the mentality that "They don't know what we have to do out here" from the front line workers you don't want your first contact or experience to come in the emergency situation. At least get an idea of who does what in the organization and how things are being done day to day in non emergencies and in more complex critical incidences where your input will be more involved.

    I always appreciated when judges,council members,dispatchers or our victims advocate did ride alongs and attempted to get a better understanding of what we face and how things are done before trying to make any changes or add to our workload rather than try and reduce it.

  6. #6
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    Besides what's already been mentioned

    Know who to call to deal with "sit on our asses and wait" emergencies. Usually it's blocking traffic until something can get cleared, it not only waste police resources, it can also lead to hefty penalties when higher authorities take over.

    -Downed power lines
    -Heavy duty vehicle recovery and cargo cleanup
    -Barricades for road closures
    -Tree removal from roads
    -Hazmat cleanup
    -Search and Rescue

    One time we had a giant 4 foot diameter, 70 foot tall tree fall across a major road in a storm. None of the city departments had the ability to fell a tree that large or clear it from the road. That tied up the 2 squad cars for 72 hours while someone tried to figure it out.

    Another time I worked a wreck where a 18 wheeler hauling scrap metal, went up on a barrier, flipped, dumped 50,000lbs of rebar in the road, broke the trailer in half, and spilled about 100 gallons of diesel and hydraulic fluid. That's not a hard wreck to work. It's a big mess, but it's just a matter of getting the right people on scene. I needed two rotating wreckers, 2 low boys, hazmat cleanup, a welder with cutting torch to finish off the trailer, a crane truck with a magnet, and two dump trucks. The city couldn't get it's shit together and get the equipment out to get the freeway cleared, after 24 hours, DPS took over and TXDOT billed the city over half a million dollars for the lane closures on a freeway.
    Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    Well, for starters, know how to get things done, and answer your phone 24/7/365. If answering your phone 24/7/365 is not acceptable, delegate it to someone who truly knows how to get things done.

    Have the ability to get food, water, and comfort items delivered to a scene when officers are stuck on-scene for extended periods of time.

    Are there any local C.E.R.T. teams in your area? If so, liaise with them. If not, see about starting one, and recruit folks who have the ability to get things done, and are willing to be called-out. Go to the FEMA site, and look for Community Emergency Response Teams. Be careful with this, of course, as peace officers may resent assertive civilians arriving at scenes. Cooperation should be stressed.
    Last edited by Rex G; 05-07-2017 at 03:23 PM.

  8. #8
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    I made this coming from a cultural LE standpoint instead of the type of work you do.


    1. You're not a cop. Don't act like one. You'd be amazed how much more respect you'll garner not trying to be a officer, but trying to be the best at your job.

    2. Feel out your role - If you're a support function to guys in the field, then support the guys in the field the best way you can. If your role is to draft policy or assist in drafting policy, do your best to understand the impact. You don't want to be known as someone whose work has negative impact and not even know it.

    3. There will be a subset of guys that will feel that you are there to serve their every need and desire. There will be a subset of guys that will think you're useless no matter how hard you try to appease them. Learn how you are most effective, but be mindful that you can't please everyone. Interpersonal skills matter here.

    4. It's a marathon, not a sprint. No one's going to warm up to you at first due to LE's insular way of being around people, so I usually say bide your time.

    5. Once you get in the office, it will become readily clear within a few weeks who that guy is. If you can't figure out who it is after a month or two...well. Guess what.

  9. #9
    THE THIRST MUTILATOR Nephrology's Avatar
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    From the EM side: Always do what the nurses tell you to do. as a corollary, never get on the bad side of your nursing staff.

    If your job is more EMS/1st response oriented than the dynamics behind the doors to the ED then I'd make sure you have a a good working relationship with whichever physician is highest on the totem pole for EMS operations (usually EMS director). They will be very important in vetting, approving, & implementing any new EMS protocols for in-field treatment/intervention. I'd also develop a strong working relationship with any other EMS programs/EDs in the area, especially your regional trauma center(s).
    Last edited by Nephrology; 05-07-2017 at 04:47 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Condition Write View Post
    I work in emergency management. I just changed jobs to take a planning/training/exercise position in an EM office that's subordinate to a small police department.
    Around here Emergency Management is usually under the Fire/Rescue organization, but a few areas -- usually remote, rural counties -- run a combined "Public Safety" department.
    (On a side note, I moved into an office position a few months back and had emergency planning for all of The Salt Mines' locations in Washington State dropped in my lap. My predecessors in the job were, shall we say, cavalier about recording the passwords of files...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephrology View Post
    From the EM side: Always do what the nurses tell you to do. as a corollary, never get on the bad side of your nursing staff.

    If your job is more EMS/1st response oriented...
    From his description, his Emergency Management position is planing for disasters: Mitigation, Response and Recovery, Training for same. Just guessing here, based on what he lists as his location, I would think tornadoes, winter storms, flooding, and HazMat spills, and maybe Active Shooters, or terrorist attacks on really, really secure bank vaults.... If he deals with medical personnel it will probably be arranging Incident Command System courses for them.
    Last edited by Drang; 05-07-2017 at 04:47 PM.
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