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Thread: AAR: 88 Tactical High Threat Vehicle Engagements, 27/28 April, 2017, Xenia OH

  1. #1
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
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    Dayton, Ohio

    AAR: 88 Tactical High Threat Vehicle Engagements, 27/28 April, 2017, Xenia OH

    Mindset
    Marksmanship
    Weapons Handling
    Tactics

    Sound familiar? The 88 Tactical High Threat Vehicle Engagements class sponsored by the OTOA started out with a review of these “4 Pillars of Wisdom” (with appropriate credits going to Col. Cooper and Pat). This was the first class with 88 Tactical I’ve attended, although I’ve known these Instructors for years. It was run through the Ohio Tactical Officer’s Association and hosted by my agency at our range. This is an LE only class that’s really geared towards the patrol officer/narc/detective who works in and around vehicles all the time. There were 9 students in the class and 2 instructors. All of the students in the class but one were assigned to patrol with collateral duties as SWAT. The final student was a younger patrol officer. Experience levels varied from just over 2 years on to 20+ years. I was the old man in the class with 21 years on. This was a physically demanding class and the OTOA website was not kidding when they said “If you are in poor physical condition, this is NOT the course for you”.

    After the Four Pillars discussion we started TD1 with a classroom discussion on common pre-attack indicators during traffic stops and watched a few dash cam videos of real incidents. We also talked about common Officer behaviors once they are in a gunfight and watched some more videos to observe those behaviors in action. The classroom portion was fairly short and then we headed to the range for some pistol drills.

    After the traditional safety brief we got into pistol drills. This was not, by any stretch of the imagination, a basic pistol skills class and is advertised as such. The pistol drills dealt with basic marksmanship so they could gauge everyone’s skill level. Once they were satisfied with our level of skill, we moved on to a discussion on muzzle discipline and different muzzle positions (SUL, Temple Index, etc.) and how they apply to shooting in and around vehicles. There is a lot of shooting in confined spaces (in cars, between cars, under cars, etc.) in this class so emphasis was placed on weapons manipulation when shooting close to others. After the discussion we did some more drills that focused on shooting close to others. Drills were run dry before they were run live fire just to make sure everyone had the idea down. Just before lunch we spent time shooting up a car to see with different calibers/ammo types to see what would and would not stop bullets. I’ve done a fair amount of shooting around cars before and I wasn’t really surprised by the results of the demonstration. Others in the class were quite surprised by the results.

    After lunch we positioned a car on the range and took turns shooting from inside the car through the windshield at targets outside the car. Once again, I have been fortunate enough to do this at several different training sessions. Most of the class had not had the opportunity to do so. I will say that when we paired up (think 2 man patrol cars or two detectives doing surveillance) the muzzle blast from the other person shooting is definitely attention getting. After that we did some 1 and 2 man scenarios where you had to engage from inside the car and then evacuate the car and engage other targets from over, around, through and under the vehicle. Much emphasis was placed on muzzle discipline and from the beginning we were told we only got one warning. A second violation got you tossed out of class. Fortunately we had an extremely squared away group of shooters and muzzle discipline was never an issue.

    TD2

    We started back in the classroom for a discussion on some other vehicle issues (gunfights after a pursuit where everyone and their brother is shooting at the bad guy and sudden bail out assaults). We watched some sobering videos involving officers who were almost shot by their co-workers and of one poor officer who was shot in the back of his head and killed by a fellow officer. Communication and knowing when NOT to shoot at the bad guy (if there is meat in front of your muzzle, don’t shoot) were stressed. Then we headed out to the range for some carbine shooting.

    The range started off the same as TD1 – an evaluation of our skills and then we moved into some malfunction clearing drills. I learned a different way to clear a malfunction that I would normally have used the “mortar” technique to clear, which is much easier to show than to write down. After that we worked from different shooting positions, different ready positions and had another conversation about muzzle discipline and when to use each ready or movement position depending on the circumstances you find yourself in. That took us to lunch.

    After lunch we ran more 1 and 2 man scenarios around the different cars on the range using handguns and carbines. During these drills, communication between you and your partner, target identification, movement/muzzle discipline and the proper use of cover were stressed. After each scenario, the students’ performance was critiqued and they were shown what they did wrong/right and how they could improve their performance. When we used the carbines in these scenarios, the instructors were close by to induce malfunctions so that we communicated with our partners and had plenty of practice clearing bad malfunctions.

    Thoughts about the class:

    The instructors for this class (Dustin and Jim) did a great job in delivering the material. I’m fortunate in that I have known those guys for several years and have taught Active Shooter Response with them on several occasions. I was not surprised at the quality of the instruction but several other students in the class complimented them on the way in which they delivered the material. There was none of the “well, Seal Team 69 does it this way so it must be good” BS. They explained the why of all of the things they taught and did it in a down to earth, no-BS manner which I appreciate. They invited guys to “throw the BS flag” whenever that person thought they were full of it. I never saw a reason to throw the BS flag and neither did anyone else. The progression of material was the way it should be done. Crawl, Walk, Jog, Run, so to speak. If you’ve ever done any training in and around vehicles you know how quick shit can go sideways and we never saw any of that in the class.

    This was not a how to do a traffic stop class, per se. They stressed their belief that passenger side approaches are better (the statistic used was that you have at least an 85% chance of winning the fight if you start with a passenger side approach). They also showed us video and demonstrated why they thought it was better, but after that the class was mainly how to win the fight once it does start. I’ve been doing passenger side approaches for years. I think I can count on maybe 2 hands the number of times I’ve done a driver’s side approach in the last 15 years. So there was no need for me to drink the Kool-Aid. I did that a long time ago.

    I went to this class because it was too good an opportunity to pass up since it was at my range, but I also wanted to evaluate it to see if this was something we (my agency) wanted to continue to host and send our guys to. We paid for 1 officer to attend and got a free slot for hosting the class. I will continue to try to host this class every year so long as the quality of the instruction remains the same.

    For full disclosure, I went on my own time and supplied my own guns and ammo. I am not affiliated with 88 Tactical in any way, although I am friends with some of their instructors.

    Since this class was run through the OTOA it was only $250, which I think is a good deal considering most classes are running b/t $150-200 per day.

    For the Gear Heads:

    I used my CZ P-07 in a Safariland ALS duty rig with an off side drop leg mag pouch set up for my rifle mags. Belt mounted pistol mag pouches were Blade-Tech. My P-07 is a Gen 2 lower with a Gen 1 upper. The upper has a Dawson FO front and black rear. I had zero issues with my pistol. I really like this pistol and it is becoming my favorite pistol of all time. It’s definitely my favorite TDA. I’m seriously thinking about getting a second one directly from CGW with their action job and some night sights. For @$850 it’s hard to beat.

    The rifle I used is my personal SBR. It’s an 11.5” LW BCM upper with an MOE SL forearm and an Aimpoint H-2. The lower is one I built 9 years ago. I recently added a LAW folding stock adapter and a LWRC UCIW Stock Kit to my SBR and this is the first opportunity I have had to really run the rifle hard since then. I also recently added a BattleComp to it. At the Fort Benning 3 gun match last year I got 2 Daniel Defense 32 round magazines in my goody bag so I decided to run those and a couple of Lancer mags through the class.

    Round count was 400+ pistol and 300+ rifle over the 2 days. The only issue I had that was not an instructor induced malfunction was with my BattleComp. When I put it on I tightened it down just a little past 12 o’clock so I loosened it up so that it would be lined up right. I didn’t have any other crush washers at the time otherwise I would have taken it off and used a new one. As you can expect it loosened up and started to come off after a couple hundred rounds. I cranked it down and finished the course with the top way past 12 o’clock but it worked well regardless. Feedback that I got from my partner during the partner drills was that it was much more unpleasant to be around than a regular flash hider. I could tell a difference in performance between that and a regular flash hider (I shot another SBR for about 2 mags when I noticed the BC was loose). But I may go ahead and put an A2 FH back on it in consideration of my team mates. We’ll see. If I do I’ll just put it on my 3 gun rifle.

    The 2 other guys from my agency ran their issued 226s without issues. One ran a dept. issued Rock River CAR-UTE patrol rifle, the other ran his personal 16" rifle. Neither had any issues. The other 6 guys ran a variety of striker fired guns and SBRs and 16" rifles of different flavors. There really weren't any equipment or gun issues to speak of that I saw.

    Overall it was a great course. If it had been full (they will allow up to 16 students) it wouldn't have been as good since we wouldn't have had time to do as much as we did. I'm going to try to host this course at least once a year so if you're an LE in SW Ohio (or want to come to SW Ohio) and are interested in being put on my email list to notify, just PM me your work email address.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  2. #2
    Can't say enough good things about the 88 instructors. Several are close personal friends of many years, the owners are awesome, and the training is some of the best.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Member dustyvarmint's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Location
    SE Wisconsin
    The muzzle blast is attention getting. The air is clear before the shooting starts. When the shooting starts the debris fills the immediate area. I thought I'd take several selfies here - as the shots started going off I immediately put the phone away and sat back in my seat...

    Name:  Inside Car 1.jpg
Views: 276
Size:  57.0 KB

    Name:  Inside Car Debris.jpg
Views: 300
Size:  70.7 KB

    happy shooting, Jerry
    "Draw fast, shoot well," Mike W.

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