Folks,
I would suggest respectfully, but firmly, that you should visit a orthopedic hand specialist or sports med doc BEFORE embarking on these exercises.
Tell the doc what you want to accomplish and ask for a script for PT.
I am typing this with old, gnarled, arthritic hands and fingers, replete with ganglion cysts.
Never imagined I would have so many busted parts at retirement.
Shumba
Originally Posted by txdpd
It never hurts to see a qualified professional, sometimes they usually know what they are talking about. The question is what do you when he tells you most grip strength training is just dumb and not worth the risk? I'm pretty sure I knew better than any doctor when I was younger and I wouldn't have listened to him about some of the long term implications of Strongman and power lifting.
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.
To be fair...a high level strongman did rupture his aorta...not that such a thing would happen to your typical weightlifting enthusiast, but hey if you play the game you take the risks...play it wrong, use bad form...poof you break your shit fast.
The medical field is always changing so yeah, opinions now are old school in ten years. I'd just focus on weight based strength training for it's documented health benefits. Will your hands not become stronger when you're able to deadlift 315? It's not like Bob Vogel is such a good shooter solely based on his ability to crack a coconut with a firm handshake...
I've seen plenty of injuries with good form. Incredible feats of strength come with incredible risk of injury. Second to common sense, good form is a great way to mitigate risk and prevent acute injury and slow the development of chronic injuries.
I've said that about Vogel for a long time. Focused, goal oriented people find ways to be successful and it rarely boils down to a single factor. The other thing I'll say about Vogel and grip strength training is that he grew up on a farm, which gives him a huge advantage over the common city dweller. He's had a lifetime of grip work to develop his ligaments, tendons, and other slow developing tissues, that tend to get inflamed, irritated and damage when less hardy folks jump into grip strength training. Muscle develop quickly, tendons and ligaments are really slow.
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.
I've posted this here before, but I think it is worth repeating. Rob Shaul (militaryathlete/mountainathlete/strongswiftdurable/mountaintacticalinstitute) did a small statistical study on grip strength. You can read the whole study here: http://mtntactical.com/fitness/grip-...er-test-train/
The bottom line is he found no correlation to improvements in max grip strength (dynamometer strength) by training farmers carry or towel pull ups, even when he saw significant gains in the latter. The best way he found to increase max grip strength was to train actual grip closing exercises like CoC grippers.
I think max grip strength is more important than grip endurance for what we do as shooters, because we generally only have short bursts of fire (<10 seconds).
Last edited by Gio; 04-30-2017 at 09:54 PM.
There are three types of grip: crush, pinch and support. Assessing "maximum" grip strength by closing the fingers on a dynanometer measures crush grip. Farmers carry with kettlebells primarily requires a support grip to keep the fingers closed around the kettlebell. The towel pullups as described primarily require a pinch grip to hold the towel in the hand. He's training support grip and pinch grip, and then assessing the training by measuring crush grip. That's like spending all day training the Bill drill and then assessing your speed and ability to transition between targets by shooting a group for accuracy at 100 yards. Ironically, the author summed up pretty well at the end, train for the type of grip you're going to be testing.
Personally I think support grip, endurance, trumps absolute crush grip strength in shooting. Consistency in training is the foundation to build upon, having the same grip from the first shot in training to the last shot, is more important than having a strong crush grip that fades through out the training session. It's not that hard to make a weak grip stronger and the improvements will be immediate. An inconsistent grip, no matter how strong, will hinder improvement.
Last edited by txdpd; 04-30-2017 at 11:09 PM.
Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.
Great posts Gio and Txdpd
Here's the next question: does shooting a string of fire with a pistol most resemble support or crushing grip?
It seems to me it is closest to support since you are holding your hand in a position and resisting the tendency to loosen your fingers, whereas when crushing grippers you are moving your fingers the whole time.
Also crushing involves nearly touching your fingers to each other, whereas when I hold onto a kettlebell my fingers are flexed to a similar position to where they are on a gun.
Didn't they both just answer exactly that? (Albeit with contrasting opinions)
We did. I think it ultimately depends on your goals. I rarely stand in one spot shooting for more than 5-10 seconds at a time without running out of bullets and needing to reload (thus allowing me to temporarily relax my grip before going back to max) or needing to move. If you find yourself standing 10+ seconds at a time squeezing the gun while holding it on target I think pinch/squeeze grip is likely more important.Didn't they both just answer exactly that? (Albeit with contrasting opinions)
I will add, I think increasing any aspect of your grip strength (crush, pinch, squeeze) is WAY down on the list of things that will make a noticeable improvement in your shooting. I think the bigger problem shooters have is they don't use a significant amount of the grip strength they already have. When you get to the point you're grasping at any minor thing you can to squeeze (pun!) a little more recoil control, slightly faster splits, etc out of your shooting, maybe you will see some benefit.
FWIW, I reached GM in USPSA without ever specifically training my grip. I got a set of CoC grippers in the last few months though and have been slowly working up to closing a 2.5 (about 3-4mm away). I have noticed a slight difference in recoil control, which is only really noticeable in bill drills or splits at 25-50 yd distances.
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