Home Defense : Hollow Point vs FMJ *HANDGUNS ONLY*

[1slow]

A good friend of mine who is a Federal Agent says there is one advantage to FMJ in self-defense or VIP protection: They go straight through a window/windshield whereas hollow points will change trajectory wildly and tumble the bullet. He likes to load every other round HP-FMJ-HP-FMJ. He has also tried a spare mag with FMJ, but he says stuff happens way to fast to consider a mag change when a windshield shot is needed. But then again he is doing VIP protection most of the time, so the situation is a bit different than normal. But may not be a bad idea in some cases.
Cody

I would like to see some testing on that. In the car's front windshields that I have shot with FMJ in class there has been deflection. Once the glass is broken a lot not much deflection.

[Default.mp3]

A good friend of mine who is a Federal Agent says there is one advantage to FMJ in self-defense or VIP protection: They go straight through a window/windshield whereas hollow points will change trajectory wildly and tumble the bullet. He likes to load every other round HP-FMJ-HP-FMJ. He has also tried a spare mag with FMJ, but he says stuff happens way to fast to consider a mag change when a windshield shot is needed. But then again he is doing VIP protection most of the time, so the situation is a bit different than normal. But may not be a bad idea in some cases.
Cody

My experiences in the car shoot demo in Will Petty's VCQB showed that the opposite was true, with FMJ deflecting more than duty rounds, when shooting through the laminated glass of a front windshield. Bullet mass played a far bigger role in reducing deflection.

[45dotACP]

If you don't have time to watch the video, I can try to sum it up, but I HIGHLY suggest you watch the video if you are currently using Hallow Point rounds for home defense.

Well...hallow point rounds I only use for defense against Nosferatu and other various and sundry revenants...

As for the others...well you can have both...that's why any of the rounds tested and verified as effective in both penetration and expansion have been kindly collated by Dr. Gary Roberts in his list.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[blues]

Well...hallow point rounds I only use for defense against Nosferatu and other various and sundry revenants...

Hallowed be thy aim

[DocGKR]

This topic and this video have been previously discussed, as noted in multiple comments here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-effectiveness

Dr. Andreas Grabinsky is an anesthesiologist whose very short 2011 lecture to EMT's at Harborview Medical Center is linked in the first post above; it is OK (you can see where he uses some of our data in the presentation), but it also contains a number of errors.

FMJ handgun projectiles typically deflect more against automobile windshields than barrier blind JHP.

[TGS]

A good friend of mine who is a Federal Agent says there is one advantage to FMJ in self-defense or VIP protection: They go straight through a window/windshield whereas hollow points will change trajectory wildly and tumble the bullet. He likes to load every other round HP-FMJ-HP-FMJ. He has also tried a spare mag with FMJ, but he says stuff happens way to fast to consider a mag change when a windshield shot is needed. But then again he is doing VIP protection most of the time, so the situation is a bit different than normal. But may not be a bad idea in some cases.
Cody

I'm curious what agency he works for.

We do protection. Like.......a lot, and what he's stating is at odds with both our practices and testing.

[Thepig]

I thought he was saying that ballistics gel does not do a good enough job. The thickness of the person and bones add in factors that decreased HP penetrating power. I don't remember mentioning JHP's at all, I am glad you use a better alternative than HP's because that is what we are discussing. Which kinda proves what he was saying anyways, since you guys know fully that JHP's are better than HP's, says something about HP vs FMJ.

He also went on to say that pistols RARELY ever go though people, they are likely not very wide buy have wirey frames. Full penetration of the body is not exactly what I would be worried about, missing shots like more of a big deal than worrying about something that never happens.

Is there any data about handgun penetration, and not people thinking it was penetration. He said frequently the person gets shot in the front and then turns around, getting shot in the back. Giving the illusion of an exit wound.

How many instances that have hard data that a pistol fired round penetrated the target and went on to hurt an innocent bystander?

[nycnoob]

How many instances that have hard data that a pistol fired round penetrated the target and went on to hurt an innocent bystander?

Please do more research before posting on this topic, really it
has been discussed to death several times here.

To answer your question NYPD switched to Hollow points after the
Amadou Diallo fiasco. It is generally assumed that the
ricochet of the over penetrating police bullets caused the
officers to think that they were under fire and thus they added
more fire (41 bullets in all) into the unarmed man.


The change was highly controversial in NYC:
(Headline from NY Post) COMMISH ORDERS MORE VICIOUS BULLETS ;
MAKES SWITCH TO HOLLOW POINTS IN AFTERMATH OF SLAY

but the fact that they have not switched back, and as far as I know
all Police departments use them as well, should be a big clue.

Is there any data about handgun penetration,

Yes, Doc created the data and it is used in the lecture you provided

[Malamute]

... I don't remember mentioning JHP's at all, I am glad you use a better alternative than HP's because that is what we are discussing. Which kinda proves what he was saying anyways, since you guys know fully that JHP's are better than HP's, says something about HP vs FMJ...

Not sure what the distinction is you are making between a hollow point (HP) and a jacketed hollow point (JHP)? Could you help clarify please?

[Thepig]

I know its generally assumed, but there are other people saying LE hits 1 out of 5 pistol shots.

I was lost in thought when I typed that sentence out, I was trying to refer to actual full penetration through bodies (proven exit wound), going on and hitting another target.

I've read quite a bit of data on this and most people with the data are saying the same thing. You should not be worried about the bullet exiting a person and be more focused on hitting your shots, specially with the horrible accuracy most LE's have in actual situations, not range.

Not sure what the distinction is you are making between a hollow point (HP) and a jacketed hollow point (JHP)? Could you help clarify please?

It's a completely different round.