Beretta PX4 Storm - Underrated is an Understatement!

[LangdonTactical]

Thanks for the welcome!
Yes, you're right. This adaptation changed the Model 92F to an FS (S for safe). Here the PX4 takes it further. The M-92 has a circular, enlarged hammer pin, where the PX4 has a semi-triangular, fixed pin head that is embedded in the frame in its own slot. Even more solid.

Attachment 23142

Attachment 23143

Good info sir!

The PX4 pin also keeps the hammer pin from rotating. Often the 92 hammer pin will start rotating in the frame rather than the hammer rotating on the hammer pin, which is what you want for many reasons.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

since you brought up the extractor, those for the Px4 and the 92 series also share two useful features: they are also a loaded chamber indicator (should see a little red mark, that also is tactile to the touch), and because they are external extractors, you can drop a round in the chamber and release the slide without worrying about damaging the extractor (unlike a 1911, where this practice is frowned upon because of its internal extractor which is it's own spring too).

An excellent point!
Many Storms don't have that red mark, though some do... but the tactile witness is something I use often. I will rub my finger nail down the extractor to feel its protrusion.



I would not recommend a drop in loading on a regular basis, though. It can cause deformation in the extractor claw's lower edge. However, keep in mind that I am looking to use my Storm for 100,000 rounds and have it still look good

[That Guy]

I would not recommend a drop in loading on a regular basis, though. It can cause deformation in the extractor claw's lower edge.

Is this something you have personally noticed from loading directly into the chamber?

All I know about the subject is that the manual claims I can load a round directly to the chamber. Which, given the expense of PX4 magazines locally, how hard they can be to top off, and just because, seems kind of neat. No need for a separate Barney mag, yay. But not neat enough to mess up the extractor, if the manual is wrong.

(Since 1911's were mentioned, an off-topic observation: in some video where Jeff Cooper was demonstrating dry fire, he reloaded his 1911 by dropping a round directly into the chamber. Of course, he probably had a spare extractor somewhere adjusted for that specific pistol, and of course a whole bunch of spare pistols too... But it was interesting to see how The Guru handled his firearm.)

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[AdioSS]

In the Cougars, the hammer pin is round with flats on each side that fit into the frame that keeps the pin from rotating. And 2 out of my 3 Cougars’ hammer pins have a hole down the middle.

I have several 92’s, a trio of Cougars (Mini .40, fullsize .40 with a 9mm barrel, fullsize 9mm Stoeger), & a PX4 .40 Type C.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Is this something you have personally noticed from loading directly into the chamber?

All I know about the subject is that the manual claims I can load a round directly to the chamber. Which, given the expense of PX4 magazines locally, how hard they can be to top off, and just because, seems kind of neat. No need for a separate Barney mag, yay. But not neat enough to mess up the extractor, if the manual is wrong.

(Since 1911's were mentioned, an off-topic observation: in some video where Jeff Cooper was demonstrating dry fire, he reloaded his 1911 by dropping a round directly into the chamber. Of course, he probably had a spare extractor somewhere adjusted for that specific pistol, and of course a whole bunch of spare pistols too... But it was interesting to see how The Guru handled his firearm.)

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That Guy,

This Guy has not used a drop in load more that a few times in training and once with a snap cap because of being overcome by a sudden gust of lazy. I also do not recommend keeping a chamber round in mag in your shirt pocket. It will get lint or fall out while you are picking up brass.

I have not done the drop in loading for a few reasons. My “info” on why this practice is potentially risky to the extractor comes from a few sources.
Firstly, in Gunsmithing school I learned about it. (though I’m old and things could have changed). Secondly, Beretta techs told me it was inadvisable on a regular basis, for the reasons I originally stated. Thirdly, I regularly talk to the local gunsmiths about lots of stuff, this included. They all agreed that the regular practice of drop in loading is risking damage. Fourthly, I spent years with Rugers also (still have an LC9) and Ruger techs said the same thing. (All references were to external extractors)


I will also clarify this, my “context” of being not in favor of frequent drop ins is duration. I have a few Storms and some are going to high round counts and years of use. So, what one can get away with for a year or so and not mix it with many thousands of rounds, may be different.

What I learned from my sources is that the extractor is designed to let the incoming round come up behind it. Jumping the rim can cause burrs on the edge of the extractor. In time the burr can interfere with the lower edge that first induces the round. This can cause a stoppage without warning. It might seem that brass won’t hurt hardened steel, but a high quality, high carbon knife edge is polished by a leather strop.

I teach and practice the drop in load as an emergency measure, if your magazine is damaged or something. To do it regularly.... ?

Jeff Cooper was a limit pusher and pioneer. The Guru doing it in demonstration does not imply advising to do it regularly. That’s my view, anyway.

To be sure(er) I put in a call to my old Gunsmithing school to run it by the instructors. If they say otherwise, I will update you.

As to the manual... I can’t say. I have tried talking to Beretta techs (including the Parts Manager, and Head Gunsmith) and they often have no idea what they were thinking in Italy R&D. Again, does the manual say you “can” or you “should” on a regular, consistent basis?


Interesting. I look forward to more discussion.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Is this something you have personally noticed from loading directly into the chamber?

All I know about the subject is that the manual claims I can load a round directly to the chamber. Which, given the expense of PX4 magazines locally, how hard they can be to top off, and just because, seems kind of neat. No need for a separate Barney mag, yay. But not neat enough to mess up the extractor, if the manual is wrong.

(Since 1911's were mentioned, an off-topic observation: in some video where Jeff Cooper was demonstrating dry fire, he reloaded his 1911 by dropping a round directly into the chamber. Of course, he probably had a spare extractor somewhere adjusted for that specific pistol, and of course a whole bunch of spare pistols too... But it was interesting to see how The Guru handled his firearm.)

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I have found that getting magazines directly from Beretta USA is the cheapest and quickest way (they also have an excellent, fast return policy).

As to topping off, an UpLula makes it easy.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

In the Cougars, the hammer pin is round with flats on each side that fit into the frame that keeps the pin from rotating. And 2 out of my 3 Cougars’ hammer pins have a hole down the middle.

I have several 92’s, a trio of Cougars (Mini .40, fullsize .40 with a 9mm barrel, fullsize 9mm Stoeger), & a PX4 .40 Type C.

How many rounds do you have through the PX4 .40 Type C?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Is this something you have personally noticed from loading directly into the chamber?

All I know about the subject is that the manual claims I can load a round directly to the chamber. Which, given the expense of PX4 magazines locally, how hard they can be to top off, and just because, seems kind of neat. No need for a separate Barney mag, yay. But not neat enough to mess up the extractor, if the manual is wrong.

(Since 1911's were mentioned, an off-topic observation: in some video where Jeff Cooper was demonstrating dry fire, he reloaded his 1911 by dropping a round directly into the chamber. Of course, he probably had a spare extractor somewhere adjusted for that specific pistol, and of course a whole bunch of spare pistols too... But it was interesting to see how The Guru handled his firearm.)

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I found that reference in the manual. It says, "The firing chamber may be loaded in one of three ways:" It then lists a description of a drop in among the three.

May be loaded in this fashion, does not seem to me as a recommendation to do so regularly, but it seems to imply that you "may". I can see how it does look like the manual is giving an OK to do it whenever you want.

I just called the Beretta Parts Manager who strongly recommends not drop in loading on a regular basis. He said the wording in the manual can be misleading, translated from Italian, but it implies that you "may" do it this way if necessary, not recommended to do regularly, though.

[That Guy]

The manual that came with my PX4 is slightly different. It mentions two ways to load the chamber (from the magazine and direct loading), and makes no mention of one being preferable to the other.

Thank you for your information. Especially the bits that come straight from Beretta, as I'm not aware of any other gun company that claims direct loading to be okay with their firearms.

(I'm still a bit curious about what constitutes "regular basis. But it does sound like I need to load my Beretta the same way as any other gun. Aww... )

(As for your tip on magazines, unfortunately Beretta USA only ships within USA.)

[DAB]

about twice a month, when i go to an IDPA match, i have to unload my carry pistol. either a Px4 or 92G. so i unload it, stash the ammo and loaded mags out of the way, and go about my day at the match. when the match is over, i reload my carry pistol and put it back in its holster on my belt.

so i have a fully loaded magazine, and one loose round. it is easier to drop the loaded round into the chamber, close the slide, decock the hammer, and stuff the loaded magazine into the pistol. done. in the holster you go.

putting the magazine in, releasing the slide to strip off the top round, decocking the hammer, dropping the magazine back out, topping off the magazine, and putting the magazine back in is extra steps.

if Beretta had said "only in an emergency should you release the slide on a loaded chamber", then i'd likely change my ways.