What's the best deal in the AR world, currently?

[Soggy]

This is not a duty gun, but it is my HD long gun and I'd like it to be a sound reliable tool. I also have the opportunity to hit steel out to 550 yards and I think it's really cool to hit steel at 400 to 550 yards with a 16in carbine and an Aimpoint.

You kind of talking two different things. Depending on what you want to accomplish, and how much money you have to spend, you might want to consider sticking with your current lower and:
A) Getting a BCM upper for HD use and putting the aimpoint on that

B) Getting a magnified optic and putting it on your existing upper. Upgrade barrel as necessary.

What to upgrade first kind of depends on what is holding you back the most. A new trigger can benefit shooting with either upper. Of course, if you have a big tax refund coming then by all means get the colt for your M2 and good optics for your range toy.

Or: Get a Colt and a magnifier for use with the M2. Put it on when you go the range, take it off when you go home. (If you need a magnifier for a home defense shot, you probably shouldn't be taking the shot).

[mrozowjj]

You have a reliable gun so you don't want to do much to ruin that. What kind of accuracy are you looking for?

The gun can be a factor but what are you feeding it? When you say that you are not getting that great of accuracy, the first thing I would start with is good ammo. For me, I am thrilled if I get between 1-2" groups at 100 yards with M193 (55 FMJ) or M855 (62 green tip). Typically you have to bump up to something in the 68-77 grain match category to get good accuracy.

Finally, and most important, how well can you shoot? Are you resting on a bipod and using a rear bag for stability or shooting offhand? How is the trigger on your rifle?

I can shoot ok I guess but I can't dream of 2" groups at 100 yards yet. I"m trying to keep them all in a 4 inch circle and most days I'm lucky to do 6"

I'm shooting off a block of wood on a bench and my trigger is a Spikes trigger. Can't remember what it's called right now but it's one of the ones that is basically a GI trigger that's been NiB coated so it's def smoother.

What kind of ammo would you recommend to test out in this gun before I do something too drastic.

Honestly I do better at 100 yards with my Scorpion carbine but that trigger is better than my AR trigger.

I don't actually expect the Colt to do that much better in terms of accuracy but I've come to realize I"d like to have one nice AR and also if I'm going to get some good glass down the road I'd feel silly putting it on my cheap frakengun.

[NerdAlert]

I can shoot ok I guess but I can't dream of 2" groups at 100 yards yet. I"m trying to keep them all in a 4 inch circle and most days I'm lucky to do 6"

I'm sure others will be along to let you know for sure, but 4-6" at 100 yards (or 4-6 MOA as the cool kids say) is pretty standard for a non-free float standard AR. Here is an article on accuracy expectations with a stock 6920 barrel. 4" with non match grade ammo is really reasonable, but that's just my opinion.

It has already been beat to death, but the question you should be asking is, what is this gun actually for? Making clover-leafs at 100 yards and HD use don't really overlap all that much.

If you want a gun that does everything fairly well, save up and get a Colt OEM 2 with FF rail and a decent LPV optic with illuminated reticle. Or get a BCM FF upper with a LPV optic. If you want an HD gun what you have will work. If you want a 1/2-1 MOA tack driver for shooting at the range, a bolt gun might be a better option.

If your primary use for your carbine is HD then worrying about 100 yard accuracy is kind of silly. There are lots and lots of options outside of ARs that are very satisfying to shoot at the range. Bolt guns. Silenced 22lr rifles/pistols. Pistol caliber carbines. Big metal handguns. Shotguns at thrown clays. Trying to make your carbine do things that are easily done by another type/style of weapon will probably end up being a)expensive and b)counter productive to your "intended" use. For example, lighter/better triggers for ARs cost a pretty penny, and may or may not be what you want to have installed in a defensive/duty carbine.

TL/dr

If you want an HD carbine, 4-6 MOA is fine. If you want something more/better than that, does it have to be an AR? Why?

Just my opinions of course.

[Soggy]

I can shoot ok I guess but I can't dream of 2" groups at 100 yards yet. I"m trying to keep them all in a 4 inch circle and most days I'm lucky to do 6"

I'm shooting off a block of wood on a bench and my trigger is a Spikes trigger. Can't remember what it's called right now but it's one of the ones that is basically a GI trigger that's been NiB coated so it's def smoother.

What kind of ammo would you recommend to test out in this gun before I do something too drastic.

Honestly I do better at 100 yards with my Scorpion carbine but that trigger is better than my AR trigger.

I don't actually expect the Colt to do that much better in terms of accuracy but I've come to realize I"d like to have one nice AR and also if I'm going to get some good glass down the road I'd feel silly putting it on my cheap frakengun.

You can get some decent glass and better ammo now for range use and see how your rifle really shoots.
Something like this for an optic:
https://swfa.com/catalog/product/view/id/114921/ (on sale through today)
Maybe the rifle is already good enough for range use, and if not you can put the scope on a dedicated range gun later. Do the same with a quality trigger if that is bothering you. If your current rifle shoots well who cares if it doesn't have the right pedigree? If it doesn't shoot well and you want to get something else I'd listen to NerdAlert and determine if an AR is really what you want.
The linked article is interesting. The IMI 77gr I mentioned above is a cheap alternative to the rounds used for testing in the article. I don't have a magnified optic on any of my AR's, so I find it 'good enough' when shooting from irons and red dots for groups. Definitely better than M193.
A lot of this all depends on budget / timelines / how many guns you want to wind up with at the end of the process. If you only want one rifle get an LPV for it. If two: scope (3-9or15x) for one and a red dot for the other.

[mrozowjj]

I'm sure others will be along to let you know for sure, but 4-6" at 100 yards (or 4-6 MOA as the cool kids say) is pretty standard for a non-free float standard AR. Here is an article on accuracy expectations with a stock 6920 barrel. 4" with non match grade ammo is really reasonable, but that's just my opinion.

It has already been beat to death, but the question you should be asking is, what is this gun actually for? Making clover-leafs at 100 yards and HD use don't really overlap all that much.

If you want a gun that does everything fairly well, save up and get a Colt OEM 2 with FF rail and a decent LPV optic with illuminated reticle. Or get a BCM FF upper with a LPV optic. If you want an HD gun what you have will work. If you want a 1/2-1 MOA tack driver for shooting at the range, a bolt gun might be a better option.

If your primary use for your carbine is HD then worrying about 100 yard accuracy is kind of silly. There are lots and lots of options outside of ARs that are very satisfying to shoot at the range. Bolt guns. Silenced 22lr rifles/pistols. Pistol caliber carbines. Big metal handguns. Shotguns at thrown clays. Trying to make your carbine do things that are easily done by another type/style of weapon will probably end up being a)expensive and b)counter productive to your "intended" use. For example, lighter/better triggers for ARs cost a pretty penny, and may or may not be what you want to have installed in a defensive/duty carbine.

TL/dr

If you want an HD carbine, 4-6 MOA is fine. If you want something more/better than that, does it have to be an AR? Why?

Just my opinions of course.

My primary HD gun is a IWI Tavor with a very very low serial number (Something in the 1000-1100 range if I recall correctly). It is the most I have ever spent on a gun. I got on the wait list Dec 2012 picked it up in May 2013 for $2200. I see what they are going for now and I get sad; less incentive to sell it I guess knowing I'd have to loose so much money if I do. That said it is the gun I would take with me if the world ended tomorrow. Yes it's heavier than the AR, but it's more compact, way easier to maintain and reliable as fuck. Yes the trigger is heavy and yes the accuracy isn't as good as an AR is supposed to be (more on that later) but those Israeli made the perfect gun for this short Polish man.

That brings me here I guess. I shoot the Tavor and my Scorpion Carbine at least as well if not better than I shoot the AR. I'm not up on the whole accuracy thing but I would think that I should be able to get better accuracy out of the AR than a Tavor much less a 9mm carbine (I'm not sure what accuracy I'm supposed to get with 9mm 100 yards but it's not exactly a long range round)

So right now I'm sitting here staring at this AR asking myself why I have it if everything it can do the other guns can do better. That made me wonder what kind of money do I need to get one that is "better" than my current AR hence why I'm asking what's the best deal out currently because if someone tells me I need to spend Daniel Defense money to get an AR that is more accurate than my Tavor I'm liable to say screw it and buy a CZ Bren... because I have an unnatural lust for all things CZ.

[Dave J]

So to be clear, in terms of priorities for building an accurate rifle, is a good trigger first on the list? Then good sights or optics, and last a free float barrel, matched with the right ammo for the twist?

Some quick thoughts...

IMHO, the trigger is a fairly low priority, unless it sucks so badly that it's clearly holding you back. IF this is the case, you should be able to visually detect it, as your trigger press will cause your sights to move on the target. OTOH, if your sights are steady through the press and follow through, it's not the trigger that's degrading your accuracy. (As far as triggers go, I've been a longtime fan of the Geisselle SSA, but the ALG ACT is almost as good, and a whole lot less expensive, so that's become my default recommendation.)

Mechanically, AR accuracy is all about the barrel, and ammo. Put on a good barrel, floated, and feed it a load that it likes. Everything else is the shooter.

Magnified optics are a plus when testing accuracy, as they help you hold a consistent point of aim between shots. If not magnified, selecting a target of the right size, shape, and contrast is very important. What works best will vary depending on your vision, sights/optic, and range...if you can't pick a consistent point of aim, you won't get good groups with any rifle.

[Soggy]

My primary HD gun is a IWI Tavor with a very very low serial number (Something in the 1000-1100 range if I recall correctly). It is the most I have ever spent on a gun. I got on the wait list Dec 2012 picked it up in May 2013 for $2200. I see what they are going for now and I get sad; less incentive to sell it I guess knowing I'd have to loose so much money if I do. That said it is the gun I would take with me if the world ended tomorrow. Yes it's heavier than the AR, but it's more compact, way easier to maintain and reliable as fuck. Yes the trigger is heavy and yes the accuracy isn't as good as an AR is supposed to be (more on that later) but those Israeli made the perfect gun for this short Polish man.

That brings me here I guess. I shoot the Tavor and my Scorpion Carbine at least as well if not better than I shoot the AR. I'm not up on the whole accuracy thing but I would think that I should be able to get better accuracy out of the AR than a Tavor much less a 9mm carbine (I'm not sure what accuracy I'm supposed to get with 9mm 100 yards but it's not exactly a long range round)

So right now I'm sitting here staring at this AR asking myself why I have it if everything it can do the other guns can do better. That made me wonder what kind of money do I need to get one that is "better" than my current AR hence why I'm asking what's the best deal out currently because if someone tells me I need to spend Daniel Defense money to get an AR that is more accurate than my Tavor I'm liable to say screw it and buy a CZ Bren... because I have an unnatural lust for all things CZ.

Well with that info, if you are interested in the accuracy thing I'd just get a CZ452 while you still can and that scope I mentioned.

[NerdAlert]

Well with that info, if you are interested in the accuracy thing I'd just get a CZ452 while you still can and that scope I mentioned.

Or a 527 would be cool as well! I might have a lust issue with light handy short throw bolt guns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mrozowjj]

Well with that info, if you are interested in the accuracy thing I'd just get a CZ452 while you still can and that scope I mentioned.

While I like the cheapness of 22LR I don't know what kind of accuracy I would get out of it at 200 yards. Right now I have access to 200 yards max so my intention is to get better at 100 yards and then push it to 200 and when that gets too easy there are places near me where I can push it to 600 though I don't know how into that I would be considering the distance I'd need to drive to get there.

My goals for that really would be to get a Tika T3 in 308 and throw a scope on it.

However that's more of a different topic. That said if you're telling me I can't really expect much better accuracy out of my AR than I currently am getting maybe I should buy that scope, slap it on the AR and then when I satisfy my urges I can buy a Tika T3 and throw that scope and call it a day.

[Soggy]

While I like the cheapness of 22LR I don't know what kind of accuracy I would get out of it at 200 yards. Right now I have access to 200 yards max so my intention is to get better at 100 yards and then push it to 200 and when that gets too easy there are places near me where I can push it to 600 though I don't know how into that I would be considering the distance I'd need to drive to get there.

My goals for that really would be to get a Tika T3 in 308 and throw a scope on it.

However that's more of a different topic. That said if you're telling me I can't really expect much better accuracy out of my AR than I currently am getting maybe I should buy that scope, slap it on the AR and then when I satisfy my urges I can buy a Tika T3 and throw that scope and call it a day.

I think I'm saying (and others have said) is there is no way to know without getting the scope, better ammo, and (maybe) a better trigger. If your rifle is confirmed as a turd you can get a nice new AR like a 6920 (or just a nice upper) and put the scope on that. (or skip to the end and get a T3 or whatever and put the scope on that).

Edit to add: If the scope will eventually be used out to 600yds the one I linked may not be the one you want. They have a FFP version, but it is not as on sale by as much right now. Next big sale is probably Thanksgiving if you can wait that long. Or, all vortex on the site is 15% off through today. Maybe CS Tactical will price match.