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Thread: Ammunition selection for the "Roland Special"

  1. #1
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    Ammunition selection for the "Roland Special"

    Ammunition selection for the Roland Special, my experiences and a request for suggestions.

    (I've posted this on other forums, but nobody seems interested in pistol ballistics, I'm hoping someone here will have useful input)

    So far I've been pretty impressed by the "Roland Special" concept. I'd already been carrying an RMR'ed G19 for six years or so, and was already sold on the utility of the RMR, both for extending the useful range of the pistol, as well shifting the focus from the sights to the target/threat.

    The compensator was new for me, and I started to wonder if there was more optimal ammo than the 147HST I've been using. It's fine stuff, but the 147 drops pretty good at extended ranges.

    I wanted to try some fast, light ammo because I figured high gas volume and low projectile weight would maximize the comp's effectiveness, as well as extending MPBR (while avoiding high POI at intermediate ranges).

    So, bought a case of Federal 9BPLE and put a few downrange for an initial proof-of-concept.

    (I know, it's pretty old school, suggestions for replacement ammunition would be appreciated.)

    pistol specs:
    G19 Gen4
    Silencerco barrel (4.5")
    TBRCi microcomp
    Trijicon RM02
    SSVI Tyr trigger shoe
    "-" connector
    Stock RSA & internals


    Anyway, I ran ten rounds over the chronograph for a baseline.

    # FPS FT-LBS PF
    10 1330 451.77 152.95
    9 1350 465.46 155.25
    8 1355 468.91 155.82
    7 1351 466.15 155.37
    6 1351 466.15 155.37
    5 1327 449.73 152.60
    4 1334 454.49 153.41
    3 1331 452.45 153.07
    2 1341 459.27 154.21
    1 1337 456.54 153.76
    Average: 1340.7 FPS
    SD: 10.3 FPS
    Min: 1327 FPS
    Max: 1355 FPS
    Spread: 28 FPS
    Shot/sec: 0.2
    True MV: 1350 FPS

    So, after pushing that data through a ballistics calculator, it looks like a 50 yard zero would yield a decent MPBR without significantly high POI at intermediate ranges.



    So, about 4 inches less drop at a 100 compared to the 147HST, and flatter trajectory overall (no surprise there).

    So, 50 yards on the 1/2 size silhouette.



    The near zero is ~somewhere~ around 10 yards. It's kinda hard to tell, and my software only spits out 25y increments.

    With the comp, the +P+ felt like weak 115 range ammo, if that, so I tend to think the theory is sound.

    Ejection is adequate with the OEM RSA, though I might try a 15# aftermarket unit.

    So, on to the 100 yard line, 1/2 size silhouette.

    (Full disclosure:
    this was not entirely offhand, my elbows were resting on my pack. This is not about me and if I can shoot or not, it's about seeing if the ammo and platform perform.)



    Given that there is a pretty wide spread regarding POI, I can't say with any certainty that the ballistics tables 5.5" low data can be confirmed. But they all hit the 1/2 size silhouette, so I'm calling it good.

    The ten hits were fired sequentially, interrupted only by an optic adjustment after the first three, coming up 3 clicks/MOA. This adjustment brought my 50 yard zero up 1.5", which is now centered, and made no practical/observable difference to the 10-ish yard zero.

    According to the Ballistics Calculator, velocity at impact would be 1,033fps with 273 fpe. I do not know if/how the projectile will perform at that velocity.

    Perhaps a SME might know a) if the federal hi-shok projectile will perform at 1,033 or b) what premium ammunition (if any) might perform better while providing similar ballistics.

    I don't think shooting an RMR'ed pistol at 100y is a "stunt", or a "trick shot". It is well within the practical capabilities of both you, and the platform, and I'd personally like to see training and attitudes take into account the viability of 0-100 yards as a practical range for the modern pistol.

    I'm sure a more talented shooter than myself could shoot at speed on a full size silhouette and expect a pretty good hit rate.

    Thanks to all those involved in the development of the "Roland Special" concept.
    Last edited by MisterHelix; 04-09-2017 at 09:05 AM.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    We have been very satisfied with the 147 gr HST in G19 RMR pistols, including those using KKM compensators: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....KM-compensator.

    If you want a +P+ load, the Win 127 gr +P+ is a better option than the 9BPLE.

    If you want +P, there are a host of options noted here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo

    This is a target was shot freehand at 50 yds with a G19/RMR06/KKM (zero'd at 25 yds) using 147 gr AE9FP FMJ at 50 yds--works fine just centering dot on the target with no need for holdover:
    Last edited by DocGKR; 04-09-2017 at 09:47 AM.
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  3. #3
    Site Supporter JSGlock34's Avatar
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    I've been very pleased with the Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P through my Roland Special. For practice ammunition, I've found the Geco 124 grain load to be an excellent match. I had a number of cycling issues with weaker Blazer Brass practice loads.
    "When the phone rang, Parker was in the garage, killing a man."

  4. #4
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    I'm far from an expert but I do enjoy reading and thinking about such stuff.

    The 124gr +Ps from Doc's list should give also you some 'oomph' for the comp while having a better terminal performance (I have no idea what their terminal performance is like at 50 yards, much less 100 yards). I see he mentions the Winchester 127gr +P+ and if I remember correctly, it's kinda hard on the guns.

    For your entertainment, you may want to try Speer's 115gr +P+ Gold Dots. They're not on the list (at least I don't remember them being and I'm not sure why they aren't as their numbers look similar to quality loads) but they should have better performance than the 9BPLE with similar ballistics.

    One thing, though, there was another thread with some longer range shooting with 9mms (I have no idea where it is) and it turned out that a longer distances, like 50 yards, the 115 and 124gr bullets were very susceptible to wind while the 147gr loads weren't.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the info and links, there's a lot of good data in there.

    Perhaps the Speer 115 +P+ gave up too much penetration to make the list, probably the same problem as the 9BPLE.


    As has been noted by Doc and others, handgun bullets basically suck to varying degrees, and so I try not to obsess ~too~ much about it.

    I do want to drive the comp efficiently and have a flat(ish) trajectory.

    I'll order up a couple different loads from "the list", perhaps some RA9TA, and see how it goes. I think I have a few Speer 124+P's around here somewhere.

    Thanks again for the feedback, I appreciate it.
    Last edited by MisterHelix; 04-09-2017 at 01:09 PM.

  6. #6
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    For a follow up, I took some 147HST, 124+P GDHP, and 115+P+ back to the 10 and 100 yard line. There was a pretty decent quartering wind, +/- 10mph, and 87F.

    The only projectile to get 5/5 hits at 100 was the 147 HST, and the hits weren't even particularly low. The lighter projectiles did indeed seem to be affected by the wind and/or temperature. The RMR was still zeroed for the 115+P+ at 50. Five shots at 7ish yards confirmed that the 147 HST was reasonably "on" at the closer range.

    So, perhaps my concern with drop is unfounded, or at least rendered moot when accounting for other factors.

    So, up to the 10 yard line with the shot timer to see if the higher pressure ammo has an effect on split/elapsed times, four round strings from ready.

    Well...short story is that the difference in elapsed times between the three loads was only .15 seconds, with the 115+P+ yielding the slowest time and the largest shot dispersion.

    So, I think my hypothesis has been de-bunked. Oh well. Live and learn.
    Last edited by MisterHelix; 04-11-2017 at 02:00 PM.

  7. #7
    Gray Hobbyist Wondering Beard's Avatar
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    That's interesting. Good on you for doing the testing and thank you for passing on the info.

    In terms of splits, where did the 124gr +P gold dots fall?

    Also, when the lighter rounds weren't hitting at distance, how far off the target did they go? If you could tell at all.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    As noted previously, we have had very good results with the 147 gr...
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

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    Site Supporter Irelander's Avatar
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    Not to throw the thread off but I was wondering if you did the support hand thumb rest mod (ala Agency Arms) on your Glock yourself. Do you feel it aids your shooting at all?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wondering Beard View Post
    That's interesting. Good on you for doing the testing and thank you for passing on the info.

    In terms of splits, where did the 124gr +P gold dots fall?

    Also, when the lighter rounds weren't hitting at distance, how far off the target did they go? If you could tell at all.
    The splits for the 147 and 124+P averaged almost exactly the same, with elapsed time within .02 (practically the same). The 115+P+ was the outlier.

    At distance, the 124+P was actually grouping the best, but the wind pushed two of the shots off target to the right.
    (124+P GDHP, 100y)


    Yes, DocGKR, you nailed it, I just had to see for myself.

    (Edit: yes, I did the "accelerator cut" myself. I think it works ok, though I think aggressive stippling in that spot would work just as well if not better)
    Last edited by MisterHelix; 04-11-2017 at 03:46 PM.

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